Author Topic: Collisions. How do they work?. Film included :)  (Read 624 times)

Offline Fariz

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Collisions. How do they work?. Film included :)
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2002, 09:58:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by RRAM



thanks for posting ,fariz :).

Humm, I know you fired close...but if you saw no pings...and in the film there are no hit sounds...

That would mean you didn't hit me with the guns. Hit sounds are played in the game, aswell in films. No sounds of pings in this film at all :(


If ping makes dammage, you hear dammage sound, not ping. At least that is how I think it works.

If I filmed it we could find out what it was. Not easy with one side film though.

I fill download your film and check anyway.

Edit: Ram, your link do not work.

Fariz
« Last Edit: June 21, 2002, 10:01:23 AM by Fariz »

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2002, 09:58:31 AM »
I think anyone with a ping over 500 should be auto-ejected from the game with a pop  up saying "Get a better connect".

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2002, 10:01:59 AM »
Ah, damn... that's what I get for not looking at the icon. La7 and La5 are both a grey fuselage, right? But La7 has the bars on the aft fuselage?
-SW

Offline hblair

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« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2002, 10:04:15 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by RRAM
Hblair: I won't answer you as your attitude deserves. In fact I won't answer you at all.


Just kidding with you RAM. :)

On a serious note, from a quick glance, looks like something that would be connection related I guess.

Offline RRAM

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« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2002, 10:06:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fariz


If ping makes dammage, you hear dammage sound, not ping. At least that is how I think it works.


Humm no, if someone hits you, you hear the hits, even when you don't get serious damage (wich is the big BANG!)

At least in other films I've played I hear every time I'm hit ,even while the hit doesn't damage anything. :confused:

Anyway, I got my horizontal stabilicer cut off. That is dramatic damage, and is something wich should sound, but In the film there is no hit sound at all, neither a BANG nor nothing. So, in the end, no, I don't think I got damaged by bullets because the lack of damage sound. :)
 



Quote
Edit: Ram, your link do not work.

Fariz



Just tested it, download is ok in this end. Try again :)

P.S. and if it still doesn't work, mail me at ebringas@airtel.net ,I'll send it to you via email. :)
« Last Edit: June 21, 2002, 10:14:48 AM by RRAM »

Offline Fariz

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« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2002, 10:11:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
I think anyone with a ping over 500 should be auto-ejected from the game with a pop  up saying "Get a better connect".


I can't.

I already paying $70 per month for dial up, to the best local ISP. To get better I shall move to some other country.

Fariz
« Last Edit: June 21, 2002, 10:15:35 AM by Fariz »

Offline CptTrips

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« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2002, 11:41:26 AM »
OK.  First off I want to say I’m not here to prove or disprove you claim.  I’m only here to provide what I know about the collision model and film system so the rest of you can make an informed decision of your own.

If you are flying around making smooth maneuvers and are filming it, on play back you will notice some jerkiness in the play back that wasn’t there in real-time.  This is because the film is only a sampling of the original flight, not an exact duplication.  Meaning every X number of frames, the film recorder samples the current state of the simulation and serializes it to file.  However, it is a lossy capture.  There are data points in between the sampling that are not stored.  The film is only an approximation of the original flight, not an exact duplication.  EVENTS  such as damage and collision are written irregardless of the sampling.  The sampling is only for positional data.  So all the events are stored without loss.  So even though the flight path is not an “exact” duplication, the event of collision was stored.  That’s how the film recorder functions as far as I understand it.  Now before you say that is BS and the film recorder is broken if it doesn’t EXACTLY reproduce the flight path you need to consider the trade-offs that always have to be made in any design decision.  If the film recorder tried to capture, package, and write to file the exact position and orientation of every object in the simulation for EVERY single frame, then your frame rate would be brought to its knees.  The film recorder would be basically unusable during online combat.  In order to maintain a reasonable frame rate during recording, the positional data must be sampled.  Sampling is always going to intale data loss.

Now, keeping that in mind, lets look at an exaggerated example for illustrative purposes:

Two aircraft are flying at a reasonable speed with one aircraft curving up at the beginning of a loop, and the other curving down at the top of a loop.  Their flight paths trace to smooth curves that intersect at the point of collision.



This flight is filmed by one of the planes.  During the film recording, these two flight path curves are sampled at regular intervals.



During playback, the aircraft positions are interpolated across the sampled data points.  Due to data loss during sampling, the two flight paths in playback do not exactly  intersect anymore.  There would be a gap showing between the aircraft.  



However events  such as collision are not sampled but are saved no matter what.  So the collision effect is still in the playback even though it looks like it was only a near miss.

So what you need to realize about the film system is that it IS an exact recording of events   (i.e. text, explosions, collisions, damage, etc…)  but it is only a sampled approximation of position and orientation.  That’s not really a bug, but a design tradeoff in order to minimize the frame rate impact of filming during online combat.


Hope this information is helpful.

Regards,
Wab
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2002, 11:51:35 AM »
Makes sense to me Wab.  In the CADD world, curves and arcs are not what they appear, they're actually a series of little lines that make up the curve, and depending on the descretization levels (Sag) is what you end up with in your scenario (though unrelated directly)

Offline RRAM

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« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2002, 11:56:45 AM »
Hummm, very nice post, AKWabbit, and is one that can explain what happened in my case and why in the film we don't collide.

I still think I avoided Fariz in the game by a narrow, but enough margin. But is my own interpretation of what happened, and subjective at that. Some other times my perception on what has happened has failed, so I guess this is yet another instance...in the end maybe I've claimed AH is buggy while I know that there's nothing more buggy than my own perception (but just sometimes, heh? ;))


So who knows ;maybe I didn't really avoid Fariz...and so far the only solid way to explain what happened -other than it being a bug, which I'm not in the position to prove either and which after your explanations seems not to be :)- is what you say. You seem to know the film system pretty well, so, if you tell me this is what happened, then I only but can believe you :)


The thing that's sure at this point is that I must avoid crossing so near of the other planes  Thanks for the post. :)
« Last Edit: June 21, 2002, 12:04:26 PM by RRAM »

Offline hblair

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« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2002, 12:41:03 PM »
Good post Wabbit.
Very clear explanation.

Offline DmdNexus

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« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2002, 12:42:13 PM »
I think you are right on AKWabbit.

Sampling rate affects the precision of the play back.

Offline hitech

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« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2002, 12:58:33 PM »
Wabbit is correct on the way things work.

Offline CavemanJ

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« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2002, 01:03:31 PM »
Nice one wabbit

It's possible that Fariz's lag did play a role in the mystery.

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56440

In that thread jarbo posted an image depicting how net lag effects what one sees on thier FE.

With his ~700ms connect it's possible the collision was detected by yer FE after the pass as positional updates caught up and were compared.

Remember, an aircraft isn't exactly where you see it because of netlag.  Sometimes the difference in actual position and where you see the aircraft is one length of the aircraft.  Or it could be 5-6 lengths of the aircraft.  A difference of 1aircraft length can be the difference in a collision or miss on your FE.

Offline lord dolf vader

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« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2002, 01:06:47 PM »
im with ripsnort over 500 ping dump um. chasin fairiz is like shootin at space ghost.

Offline mipoikel

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« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2002, 01:27:45 PM »
I don't agree. Next move would be that people want dump people whos ping is more than 400 etc. Finally there would be only players from USA. Best but maybe impossible solution would be another gameserver for european players which would be located somewhere in europe.
I am a spy!