Ok, fighter jocks, why is it "pig pile" on the BUFFs?

[AN]

Oh, and when dar gets knocked out--I log.  

anRky

[ 09-22-2001: Message edited by: AN ]

[Wotan]

Karnake I used to feel and wish for that.

Fact is look at what takes place everyday.

Most folks up where the nearest "fight" is.

Most folks never bring bombs to base capture/attack they come to vulch/furball

At any given point during the day most folks are congregated around areas where the nme are. Even if the areas are stratigically unimportant. They are not interested in base capture per se but will surely show up at a field that is deacked to vulch. Half the time they fly through ack to get a plane thats uppin. None of this is bad.

You have never been in a good fight between bases when some comes in and kills all the fhs or fuel in a suicide buff run. or off a cv in good fun fights then someone suicides it?

I dont speak for anyone but myself but my observations are valid whether folks admit it or not.

Just look at the main at whats going on.

This is my answer to his question.

<edit>
reread my post to find where I may have implied that I speak for anyone. At most every point I make about the "majority" I have stated "check the main" or as demonstrated everyday". I may not have reinforced these statements enough but they should be clear to anyone who read them.
I did not base mho on what folks say but by what I see in the main......

[ 09-22-2001: Message edited by: Wotan ]

[ET]

Laz Next time your in the game,bring up the clipboard.Go into normal world.Check out the field maps.You will see the small field with two fighter hangers as it once was.Now it has three.Then check the medium field.You will see the one fighter hanger as it once was.Now it has four.The large field has not changed except to spread the two SW FHs out so they were not as close together.But there are also more large fields now.The new changes in fields made a great improvement on the game.The fighters had more chance to up from a base under attack and the buffs could no longer go out and kill the fighter hangers at the 6 nearest bases.
     There are problems now between fighter guys and buffers that this thread,which started out pretty good from both sides of the issue that will not be solved here.The people replying to the thread stated their sides and it looked for a while that both sides were listening but then the name calling started and the derogatory comments followed.The thread itself is now useless.
      We play this game for fun but to HTC it is a business.They have made many corrective changes in the past to make this game more enjoyable to all.This keeps their customers happy and brings them back month after month.They will make more changes.Whatever they are,I will live with them.And when they make those changes,I believe they will be as close to the specs as they can make them.They can only sacrifice so much for enjoyable gameplay before the game becomes something it was not designed to be.
ET

[lazs1]

geeze... I'm agreeing with hptmnsuperace wotan?  well... He is right.   Like him, I can't possibly speak for anyone but myself but... I can point out the obvious.  

People go to the action... It's just that simple.   Whenever the fighter hangers are dropped at one field or another..  MOST everyone goes somewhere else.   They go where the new fight is.   Why all the cryong about "furballs" if not that most people participate in em?   and if most people participate in em then "most" people must be doing what they want to do and that is.... melee!   Most get enough anal, political strat boredom at work.

eskimo... i don't care how good or bad the buffers have it and i am certainly not gonna waste my time finding out.   It is irrelevant.   It is their affect on the game that I despise.  their ability to ruin the fite for so many.

As for the guns of bombers... Look, when I am completly bored (no fites anywhere close) I will kill a buff.   it is one of the least fun kills I ever make in the arena.   gamey and dumb and just plain arcade.   The guns and gunners all see a fighter at the same time and all fire at said fighter at the exact same moment with dispertion that is questionable (for each gun) and sometimes through their own plane.   It is like and ant colony... all the little worker ants are slaved to one queen ant.

As for melees.. or "furballs" being realistic... well.. they are the most "realistic" fights we have except that real melees were often much larger.   what is unrealistic is 1 v 1 or high alt lone wolf hunters.

And no, I don't think goon hunting is "satisfying" nor do I think that any strat that is not fun and action packed is satisfying.

You are correct... it is a livelyhood for HTC..  A lot of new guys are bored.   I bet it changes pretty soon.
lazs

[texace]

DAmnit I am getting tired of saying this. Wontan and lasz, listen up. IF THE BASE THAT YOU ARE FIGHTING AT GETS KILLED, GO TO ANOTHER!!!!!

You all seem to think that is your "fyrball" field gets killed that it shuts down all the fighters in the arena. You do know that fights are going on at most places, not just around you? Are you afraid to actually "fly"?    

The only way bombers affect the "fun" of MA pilots is that they make them fly to another field. Big whoopeeed deal! Fly there and keep fighting.

I will keep fighting in this thread until it is shut down. Bombers belong in the MA, no matter how much they ruin  your fun.
Deal with it.

[FDutchmn]

Just a quick question on gunners being able to fire through its own structures...

Is this the case or is it that the other guns are firing at the target?

Flying Dutchman

[eskimo2]

The funny thing is;
The Fighter Hangers can only be shut down for 13.5 minutes.  All fighters can fly for at least 27 minutes (about), so if you take off before the hangers fall, your not affected.  The time that the hangers stay down is also about how long it typically takes to fly from one base to another, which is what you often must do to get into a furball anyway.

eskimo

[Wotan]

so basically the majority (guys in fighters) ought to adjust to how the minority (buffers) wanna fly?

This attitude here lepaul should answer the question for you...........

[Westy MOL]

Just for the record, I'm not advocating removing the buffs from the MA. I feel I had to state that again as there are a couple of people that have a comprehension problem.
 I DO however stand by making bomber control and especially the bombardier activites more complex.

 Also, after having gotten into a "disagreement" with LePaul online just a few weeks ago where he maintained I'd not given him in his LAnc a "6" call in regard to an approaching Spitfire, when I had (I have the film to prove it), I've sworn off making any "6" calls on solitary friendly buffs (unless I like who it is). Hell, I'll not even defend em anymore but I'll just be happy knowing that the enemy I'm flying to fight against will have FH's up with which to fly from also.

 -- Westy

[lazs1]

texace... you don't get it do you?   You are saying that if the fight between two close fields with 20 or so guys participating is shut down by on bomber making one run..  then, we should go to another field that has all red bar or nothing at all or all green bar or is 2 sectors away and try to get another fite started and once we get a good fite going again just.... Hope that a lone buffer doesn't notice it and ruin that one too?

Why the hell don't you bomb back fields that no one is using instead?   Most of the fields I see being de-fighterehangered are "useless" to (choke) "strat" anyway.  Happened again last nite.... maybe 30 guys enjoying the only good fite on the map for us rooks at the time and a lone high alt buff drops a few bombs to close the fighter hangers.  

If there were no killshooter I would kill our own buffs... Not much fun but very "satisfying"... As far as "satisfying" goes right now... I do enjoy shooting buff chutes.
lazs

[texace]

ARGGGHHHHHHH! Damn this. I can't do this anymore. All the damned fighter jocks are too worried about their own "fun" and score that they don't want bombers in the game because "they affect the gameplay of the majority of the fighters in the arena" That is complete bulls**t and you know it. I bomb forward feild so my guys can take them from you and keep the front moving. I can give a s**t if I kill a furball, and I don't care.
I can give a damn if you "fighter guys" get pissed at the lone buff shutting down a field that a furball is at. The tone here is that they don't want to fly, just fight. Yes lazs, I am asking you to actually FLY to a fight and start another. I don't care, y'all. I am here to have fun, and if I have fun killing the forward bases and stopping furballs, then so be it. I also keep track of all the whines about cutting a furball short. So far all I see is your name lazs and a couple others.

And if killshooter was off, I would kill any aircraft, friendly or not, closing on me. I won't take the chance of amazinhunks like you cutting my run short just because you want to keep your furball going.

[LePaul]

Damn, this thread is still going?  

So let me see fi I get this all right....

Westy is whining, err, peeved because he insists he gave me a checksix several weeks ago (beats me, flew a lot of sorties between here and then, and I honestly don't recall what the heck he's talking about) and is opposed to giving me, or my buff, friendly or not, in the forseeable future.  Hmmm, sounds petty to me.  But, can I say I'm suprised?  Nah.  And I can't really say I care.  <shrug>  Apparently I am damned because <gasp> I annoyed Mr Westy once upon a time, so beware to the rest of you who cross his uptight path too!  Muhahahahaha

Lazs is the lost cause.  He's the retard in the corner rocking back n forth like "RainMain" singing "Definately gotta get rid of bombers" along with "KMart Sucks"    All he thinks of is fighters, fighters, fighters.  Anything with 2 or more engnies is bad, and he and his imaginery advocates all feel the buffs "ruin his fun", although he won't use "he", he'll always allude to others, who apparently do not exist.  There is no discussion or reasoning with someone who fantasizes or imagines support of his own thought....

Ah, then there is Wotan.  He who claims I am trying to force everyone to play my game, despite the facts of the discussion.  Almost as bad as Laz, but he's got a sense of humor and seems like a good natured guy.    Wotan, we AGREE the B-17 has issues.  But as for the buffs in general, what's the big deal?  Please, abstain from the Laz "We ruin your fun" mantra.  Your fighters on my Lancasters 6 ruin my fun too, but that's how the game is played.  Why can't you see it that way?

(Yes, lots of humor has been injected cuz we need it!)

As the thread started out, and has expanded, I dont understand the anti-buff crap still.  Seems anything with bombs hung to them piss you guys off  

[Westy MOL]

Not whining and not peeved. I'm being factual and I'm responding to inform your narrow-mindedness just what the scoop is as. Just as you asked. Others have pointed it out that you asked but obviously don't want to listen.  You only read and hear only what you want to and on top of that you twist and distorte what is said. Similar to that "6" call incident. I only remember the moment because you looked like a baffoon on the country channel berating all around you for not giving you a "6" call when you'd been given 3. One by myself and two from others. But, like here, you went off half cocked, ill informed and ever so right in your conviction that in your mind you were transgressed.
 
 Westy

[lazs1]

lepaul and texace... you guys are proof positive that buffers are too dumb to live.   I hope you guys are using effective birth control methods or are gay.

You have too much effect on the game for how little skill and/or effort you put into it.   What is so hard to understand?   the effect that you few have on the many is lopsided and you are unhappy if your affect is diminished...  so long as you are able to have such a lopsided affect on gameplay there will be animosity.    texace says it best... he doesn't care what affect he has on other players so long as he has his fun.

Really, the way the so called "strat" is set up there is no need for buffs..  In fact... the only way to have em is to make em so concession ridden that they are not even in the same game as the rest of us.... If you make the accuracy of the bombs correct or if you make them have each gun manned then they won't play...  Not me throwing them out.... they just will pout and go away...  

lepaul... read what funked and wotan said again if you have problems understanding me..  they made it quite clear.   I can't believe that anyone could read those and still pretend to not get it...  Perhaps you are the one who is retarded?   If so, NP... I can understand that but if you are not retarded then it would appear that you have trouble with the truth.   "rainman" indeed.
lazs

[steely07]

War is hell innit?