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Author Topic: It beats ferrari  (Read 1009 times)

Offline Mini D

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It beats ferrari
« Reply #30 on: June 30, 2002, 01:28:07 PM »
FWD is not easier to learn.  It is different.  Completely different.  I've also owned other RWD cars (ones that weren't rear engine).  The top notch handling RWD cars behave very similar.  A tap on the brakes to set the wheels and you can use both the throttle and wheel to steer it through a corner.  If you feel it starting to get loose, you let up on the throttle a tad (the better the throttle response the easier this is).

With FWD, everything goes against what is deemed natural.  You get heavy with the throttle just after starting the turn and get even hevier if you start to get loose.

The only real advantage you get with RWD is that the weight transfer is to the rear wheels on high torque acceleration.  But then... we aren't talking about that when we say "mini" or "bug".  The mini got away from torque steering effects by making the torsion bars equal length.

BTW.. the bug is one of the worst handling RWD cars I've ever owned.  It is one of the reasons I can't help but chuckle when you tout its handling virtues.  EVERY FWD car I've owned would out handle it.  The only RWD car I've owned that the bug out-cornered was my truck.
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Offline BUG_EAF322

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It beats ferrari
« Reply #31 on: June 30, 2002, 01:37:50 PM »
LOL
nice try
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Offline Mini D

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It beats ferrari
« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2002, 01:42:57 PM »
I guess nervous laughter is the best you can come up with there.

It hurts when you are talking from your heart and bump into people that would rather talk from experience.  Eh?
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Offline senna

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It beats ferrari
« Reply #33 on: June 30, 2002, 02:40:52 PM »
My 2 cents...

Rear wheel drive is really superior in terms of performance. Front wheel cars were deleloped really for the average commuter as it provides the safety factor of a natural understeer and is cheaper to produce. Once people started to race the front wheel cars they learned a few tricks and were able to make them competative with rear wheel drive cars. This however is defined by how much HP your putting on the drive wheels. Theres a point where theres too much power and weight transfer that the rear wheel car will again emerge out as the superior design. Its because the rear of a car sinks down as a car accellerates. This would work against thge front wheel drive car. At that point its a race between 4wd and rear wheel drive.

How do they make front wheel cars competetive with rear wheel cars?

In general much softer front suspension settings than the rear. Rear is set to very very stiff.
Breaking into the turns (trail braking).
3 wheeling it as well where they corner in such a way that the rear inside wheel of the turn will lift up off the ground thus causing a brief overstear to get around a turn.

In a rear engine rear wheel drive car you get the natural overstear when you lift off the gas if the car is longitutionaly off center (pointing into turn or in the turn). Sort of like an automatic overstear feature whenever you want. Rear wheel drive rear engine cars need large rear tires for racing. The old bugs used flat belly pans for a chassis which twisted and bent in all sorts of ways causing bad handeling at higher speeds. I bet any modern day high performance bug has a custom build chassis thats much stiffer.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2002, 03:40:37 PM by senna »
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Offline Mini D

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It beats ferrari
« Reply #34 on: June 30, 2002, 06:29:10 PM »
Quote
Front wheel cars were deleloped really for the average commuter as it provides the safety factor of a natural understeer and is cheaper to produce.
Cheaper to produce would be the key factor.  Ironically... the bug set this trend with its own transaxle.  Cost was the primary concern.

The volkswagen offered a cute car at a very cheap price.  A car for the masses.  I've not experienced anything in relation to air cooled VWs that even hints at handling/performance.  A car for the masses.  In that arena it excells... but to make it out to be anything else is... well... exagerating.
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Offline Ripsnort

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It beats ferrari
« Reply #35 on: July 01, 2002, 09:37:16 AM »
Mini D, test drove a Mini cooper over the week-end, nice ride! (I have a 330ci, so no new cars for me for awhile though...)  I couldn't help but notice that if I ever met one head on in my lane while driving my truck, that I may have a difficult time scrapping it off the bumper...but I digress, very fun car to drive!
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Offline straffo

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It beats ferrari
« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2002, 09:56:14 AM »
// troll mode on ...
Why arguing about FWD or RWD when you can have both ?

4WD rulez :p





I've a rather slow day at work ...
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Offline Monk

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« Reply #37 on: July 01, 2002, 10:10:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
// troll mode on ...
Why arguing about FWD or RWD when you can have both ?

4WD rulez :p





I've a rather slow day at work ...


Exactly my thoughts...MUUHAHAHA
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Offline Mr Hanky

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It beats ferrari
« Reply #38 on: July 01, 2002, 10:25:49 AM »
deleted
« Last Edit: July 01, 2002, 10:30:05 AM by Mr Hanky »
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Offline Mini D

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It beats ferrari
« Reply #39 on: July 01, 2002, 10:31:28 AM »
Monk.. is that an Alpha?  Looks like a total knockoff of the Audi Sport (1995 or so).  And yeppers.. AWD is the way to go.  BTW.. any idea on how they distribute the power between front and rear? ;)

Ripsnort, Its short, but its not really that narrow (about the same as a VW Jetta).  HO vs a truck is a bit unfair as I wouldn't really want to do that in your 330 either.  It does come with 7 airbags (not including the wife) and is pretty solid.  The only thing that raised my brow was the absense of a front radiator core support of any substance.  But it does have respectable crumple zones.  The main advantage is quite simply that a truck would have a hard time catching one.  Its handling and braking are abilities amongst the best.
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Offline Staga

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It beats ferrari
« Reply #40 on: July 01, 2002, 10:34:32 AM »
Lancia Delta HF Integrale.
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Offline Monk

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It beats ferrari
« Reply #41 on: July 01, 2002, 10:41:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mr Hanky
Monk.. is that an Alpha?  Looks like a total knockoff of the Audi Sport (1995 or so).  And yeppers.. AWD is the way to go.  BTW.. any idea on how they distribute the power between front and rear? ;)

.


No Mr.Hanky, thats a Lancia Delta, prolly the best rally car ever built. I think that is a 93.
This is like mine the last model 94 EVO III:D :D :D
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Offline Mini D

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It beats ferrari
« Reply #42 on: July 01, 2002, 11:37:02 AM »
Ah... Lancia.  Gotcha.  Its still an Audi Sport knock-off though;)
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Offline Harppa

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It beats ferrari
« Reply #43 on: July 01, 2002, 11:56:02 AM »
Phohhhh....

Cars, why bother...



Harppa
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Offline midnight Target

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It beats ferrari
« Reply #44 on: July 01, 2002, 11:57:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Harppa
Phohhhh....

Cars, why bother...



Harppa


What's that white stuff?
:eek:
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