Author Topic: F4U-4 vrs NIK2 (Read 884 times)

Samm · « **Reply #15 on:** June 25, 2002, 08:36:03 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sikboy
Samm, I don't think he was low E, I think he tried a Rope, and the Niki hung longer than he anticipated.

-Sikboy

Yeah but isn't the rope a gamble in which you blow your E at the top ? Oh well, sounds like he may have misjudged the n1k2's E state, that happens to me a lot with 109s .

Sikboy · « **Reply #16 on:** June 25, 2002, 08:51:22 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Samm

Yeah but isn't the rope a gamble in which you blow your E at the top ? Oh well, sounds like he may have misjudged the n1k2's E state, that happens to me a lot with 109s .

I hadn't really thought of it in those terms, but that is one way of looking at it.

Essentially, when I get a tail full of lead when trying a rope, I tend to say "damn, I really assed up that time" And go about my business. But I've never lost an F-4U4 or any other perk plane doing it. I bet I'd be pretty torqued (haha!) if that happened. In the end though, F4UDOA has presented questions about flight models before, and has always been patient with the process, even when HTC has deceided (as far as I can tell) to go in a different direction. In my mind he's earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to whining. I extend him that courtesy. Besides, have you seen how big his arms are? I'm not going to taunt that dude!

-Sikboy

Samm · « **Reply #17 on:** June 25, 2002, 09:02:24 AM »

Yeah that's true, I guess I just start salivating when I see a n1k2 FM thread topic, hope I didn't come off sounding hostile .

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #18 on:** June 25, 2002, 02:13:26 PM »

The Niki vertical behavor has been fixed for a while now. There is no longer any cause for FM concern, frankly F4UDOA simply diddlyed
up in some way and he lost his plane.

Hristo · « **Reply #19 on:** June 25, 2002, 04:31:20 PM »

Nah, he probably can't come up with original whine so he copy&pasted the usual one

F4UDOA · « **Reply #20 on:** June 26, 2002, 09:57:41 AM »

Actually Grunherz is correct. I could have won the fight and I probably should have. I blew a huge E advantage and had already nailed him with what could have been a leathal shot. But all that aside the NIK2 was able to maneuever and shoot at a speed of approx. 60MPH while at a high AoA. This is my only question in this thread.

BTW Samm,

The F4U-4 has a better sustained climb rate than the NIK2 at most alts. However if you climb at higher speeds(over 200MPH) the -4 really out climbs the NIK2 because the Niki does not have the power to sustain a high speed climb with a -4. At 300MPH the Niki can barely climb at all and the -4 can maintain close to a 2K rate of climb the whole way up to 20K.

Laters

I will post this film if it's the last thing I do!!

udet · « **Reply #21 on:** June 26, 2002, 10:05:07 AM »

where is the frreaking pic?

Creamo · « **Reply #22 on:** June 26, 2002, 10:09:30 AM »

Is this a discussion of the actual capabilities of the N1K2?

I find it can turn and keep speed like a muther, just like the ME262 is fast, and the Spit can turn on a dime.

Just asking if it's FM is right or wrong and who knows what's up. Kinda in the veign where the FW crowd has big interest and charts on the varients, and seem to present their case quite well.

The N1K2 is hardly a historically covered aircraft. Kinda miffed on what it could, or shouldn't do myself.

F4UDOA · « **Reply #23 on:** June 26, 2002, 11:42:41 AM »

Try to download the film from here.

NIK2vrsF4U4(BIG FILE!!)

BTW I am completely embarrassed by the type of thread I started. I just want an unbiased opinion if the virtical maneuvers look right to everyone else. It will be easier to tell in the next version of the film viewer where you can switch to the opposing pilots seat.

BTW, this file is very big. The first 18minutes is me flying around lost and then chasing a ME262 which I couldn't catch. The I find the NIK2.

dtango · « **Reply #24 on:** June 26, 2002, 11:45:19 AM »

F4UDOA:

Just a side note...

From your description I'm assuming you mean attitude vs. AOA. Just wanted to point out that AOA and attitude are two different things. AOA is relative to the direction of wind/motion to the wing while attitude is relative to the orientation of the nose. You can have a 90 degree nose high attitude but be low AOA.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

Creamo · « **Reply #25 on:** June 26, 2002, 11:51:17 AM »

Again, just wondering your point-

Watching the film on the external film viewer you can see how quickly the NIK2 can recover speed and how well it handles at extreme low speed at high AoA.

Your either showcasing how HTC models a little known late war Jap fighter's abilities, or second guessing it's FM.

Seriously, just say what.

I'm in the "no idea" crowd, looking for solid feedback.

F4UDOA · « **Reply #26 on:** June 26, 2002, 12:07:24 PM »

Dtango,

Your technical description has me a little confused. What I mean is the ability to point your nose up at low speed and still maneuver.

Creamo,

I guess I'm just looking for one of two responses.

A. That NIK2 is a freaking UFO and shouldn't be able to do that.

or

B. I don't see anything strange, quit yur whining.

I really don't fly the NIK2 much so I can't say for sure what it's capabilties are. In fact I usually don't worry about them at all since I stick to pretty ROE usually and try not to get caught up with them where I can't escape. However with a superior climbing A/C (the F4U-4) I thought I would try a virtical rope. I was just surprised to get my flap taken off while I had maneuver speed and I thought my opponent did not.

J_A_B · « **Reply #27 on:** June 26, 2002, 12:17:23 PM »

In threads like this I always rememver with a smile the reports of USN pilots whining about the N1Ks doing impossible maneuvers.

HTC has replicated at least ONE aspect of WW2 to near-perfection

J_A_B

Creamo · « **Reply #28 on:** June 26, 2002, 12:28:32 PM »

FUDA-

A. No

B. It seems to be relevant enough to question historic data. Thing is, there is nothing but whines. See item “A.”

Sancho · « **Reply #29 on:** June 26, 2002, 12:43:15 PM »

I watched the film and I didn't see any UFO N1K stuff, just a big slow hog getting caught trying to turn with an N1K, then trying to run when it was too late. You had one really good gunpass on the N1K at the beginning, and I think you should have put him away there. In fact I was surprised not to see any damage on him after that, but oh well.

After that, you made a few mistakes and it cost you. You started out with a huge E advantage, but you slowed down more than necessary by turning quickly back toward the N1K after every pass. Watch your speed and the N1K's speed--you'll see your speed advantage diminishes after every pass. It's not futile to use vertical maneuvers against N1Ks, but if your speed is about even and he's on your six, don't even think about going vertical.

edit: ONe more thing, looks like in AH the N1K has the climb speed advantage over the F4U-4 below 8k, which is where this fight occurred.