Author Topic: F4U-4 vrs NIK2 (Read 804 times)

dtango · « **Reply #30 on:** June 26, 2002, 02:01:41 PM »

F4UDOA:

Sorry, I need to do a better job

.

AoA is the angle of the wing relative to direction of wind where it "strikes" the wing due to the "forward" motion of the aircraft. It isn't the angle relative to the horizon.

Attitude on the other hand is the orientation of the nose relative to the horizon.

I started to type more but erased it since I think I was making it more confusing

. I understand what you were trying to say. Just trying to help us with awareness of the use of the terms

.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

Samm · « **Reply #31 on:** June 27, 2002, 12:22:40 AM »

Even with a full tank of gas (and it carries much fuel) the n1k2 will get to 10k faster than the f4u4 .

Viper17 · « **Reply #32 on:** June 27, 2002, 01:39:57 AM »

Maby it realy did that in real life??? The prop hang thingy. I mean were any of us alive when the thing flew. DID YOU fly it??? How do you know that the FM is flawed. If it realy flew like this how would we know. Stopyabellyaching and fly.

Karnak · « **Reply #33 on:** June 27, 2002, 04:14:38 AM »

J_A_B is correct, USN pilots did report the N1K doing impossible manuevers after encountering them. The thing was very good in some respects and it was a plane that was easy to die against if you screwed up.

Samm · « **Reply #34 on:** June 27, 2002, 05:44:46 AM »

"On 10 February 1945, Warrant Officer Kinsuke Mutoh of the 343rd Kokutai single-handedly engaged twelve Grumman F6F Hellcats, shooting down four and severely damaging two.

On 19 March 1945, the 343rd launched some fifty fighters to intercept a large US Navy flight bound for Kure. In the ensuing air battle, the pilots of the 343rd managed to destroy fifty-two of their enemies while losing only sixteen of their own.

A few days later, twenty-one Shiden-Kai's led by Squadron Leader Yoshinobu Hayashi bounced twenty-three F4U Corsairs and in a very one-sided match destroyed eighteen of them."

F4UDOA · « **Reply #35 on:** June 27, 2002, 01:48:52 PM »

Karnak and J_A_B,

I have never seen this report. Do you know where I can find it??

Quote

"On 10 February 1945, Warrant Officer Kinsuke Mutoh of the 343rd Kokutai single-handedly engaged twelve Grumman F6F Hellcats, shooting down four and severely damaging two.

On 19 March 1945, the 343rd launched some fifty fighters to intercept a large US Navy flight bound for Kure. In the ensuing air battle, the pilots of the 343rd managed to destroy fifty-two of their enemies while losing only sixteen of their own.

A few days later, twenty-one Shiden-Kai's led by Squadron Leader Yoshinobu Hayashi bounced twenty-three F4U Corsairs and in a very one-sided match destroyed eighteen of them."

Actually Samm that is some very good fiction but it doesn't check out against the facts. First there were only 189 F4U's lost in WW2 in Air to Air combat. I don't believe 18 were ever lost in any one engagement.

Second I can not find any records of any activity by the 343rd on that day except multiple ace Naoshi Kanno was shot down by an F4U-1D flown by Ensign Roy Hill of the VMF 123. In fact the F4U's of the VMF-123 claimed 11 Georges that day against a loss of 3 of there own. 2 pilots and one ditched and recovered next to the carrier. In fact one the returning F4U's had 41 20millimeter holes counted in it(try that in AH). And if you read the report from the VMF-123 they reported being able to turn inside the Georges quite easily. This can be found in the Book "Corsairs and FlatTops". And these were not F4U-4's. So much for annecdotes.

Also I will test the climb to 10K in AH offline.

BTW, the Author of the report I quoted is Henry Sakaida. He published "Imperial Japanese Navy Aces "1937-45".

F4UDOA · « **Reply #36 on:** June 27, 2002, 02:20:44 PM »

Tested the F4U-4 in AH vrs NIK2 to climb 10,000FT.

F4U-4= 3.27
NIK2= 3.19

Not exactly a crushing defeat.

Samm · « **Reply #37 on:** June 27, 2002, 06:06:43 PM »

I'm surprised it took the N1k2 that long to get to 10k since it climbes +4000fpm untill 8k, and that is with a full tank of fuel . How many n1k2s are you going to find flying around that took off with 100% fuel ? You did use wep in your test right ?

I watched your film, even if the f4u4 did climb better than the n1k2 the outcome would've been the same, you were in it knee deep .

And as for the quote I captured it from a webpage, any US vs Japan wwII stats would be difficult to prove since the Japanese didn't keep them and the US stats remain largely falsified to date . Anectodal pilot accounts are about the best means of record we have . Didn't an F4u pilot claim that Boyington shot him down ?

Sclew · « **Reply #38 on:** June 27, 2002, 06:56:01 PM »

The report is false.

Some time ago it was presented to Pyro- he replied with the account (with source references) and the additional information that the story was absolute fiction made up for morale purposes (an autobiography source reference, quoted).

If you want to find it use the search function for pyro's name and the plane name.

F4u- I think what we are seeing (and this has also been said before) is the fact that the Nik's auto flap device is worked into the FM instead of just popping out the flaps like the real plane did.

This means the plane can keep exceptional lift and control at high attitude and low speed. Consider it like the F4u's flaps operating automatically instead of you having to control them. Would make the plane seem like a bit of a UFO wouldn't it?

OTOH this would usually mean the flaps would start adding drag ETC ETC. I don't know if Pyro is done with the flap model for the planes. I expect one day this will be switched to just opening the flaps at a certain level of lift instead of an FM tweak.

BTW the comment on out-turning the George- was about an instantaneous (sp? what a big word!) turn not any sort of prolonged or low speed manuever. Like the A6M the Nik didn't have good authority at higher speeds for turning- better balanced controls than the Zero but nowhere near the level of balancing in US planes.

Steven · « **Reply #39 on:** June 27, 2002, 07:10:19 PM »

Quote

I think what we are seeing (and this has also been said before) is the fact that the Nik's auto flap device is worked into the FM instead of just popping out the flaps like the real plane did.

Does this mean the N1K flight model double-dips in the flap/lift department but not in the drag? It sounds as if you say the N1K has the flight model so that it automatically calculates in flaps at a certain speed but I'm guessing the player can still manually use flaps...thus, double-dipping the lift. I may be way off base, I've flown the N1K 2-times at most, but I'm curious.