Author Topic: Top level speeds at low altitude: Mustang, Tempest V, and Spit XIV (Read 389 times)

mw · « **on:** June 24, 2002, 05:38:44 PM »

In an attempt to optimize top level speeds at low altitude, RAE, Farnborough received aircraft from operational squadrons, in August 1944, and made certain recomendations concerning what the maintenance personal could do to get the most out of their squadron's aircraft. The recommendations were to repaint the leading edges of the wings, rub down the aircraft, remove bomb racks and other non-essential items, and use 150 octane fuel.

They be fast

K West · « **Reply #1 on:** June 24, 2002, 05:47:30 PM »

Interesting in that it shows the Tempest slower than the other three for a quite a large part of the altitude range.

But as was done with the FW 190 roll chart in another topic, please allow me to be the first to cast a wary and suspicious eye on a chart which has no identification, validation or accreditation.

Westy

mw · « **Reply #2 on:** June 24, 2002, 05:53:37 PM »

Lol! Cast your wary and suspicious eye elseware K West. This is the real deal. The primary source document is:

Technical Note No.Aero.1501(Flight) August 1944 Royal Aircraft Establishment, Farnborough

Nice try

midnight Target · « **Reply #3 on:** June 24, 2002, 06:03:24 PM »

So, if I'm reading this correctly, the pony will outrun the other 2 at anything near the tree tops?

J_A_B · « **Reply #4 on:** June 24, 2002, 06:34:05 PM »

No Tahgut, the stripped-down high-octane racing Pony will outrun the stripped down high-octane racing versions of the other planes at treetop level.

However, a combat pilot would probably want to take his bomb racks with him, considering those were what the droptanks were attached to (at least in the case of the P-51D).

J_A_B

funkedup · « **Reply #5 on:** June 24, 2002, 06:39:23 PM »

Notice that it's a Sabre IIA in the Tempest. I think we worked out a long time ago (memory is foggy here) that the AH Tempest must use a Sabre V.

mw · « **Reply #6 on:** June 24, 2002, 07:10:39 PM »

Yes midnight target, the Pony is the fastest on the deck, just edging out the Tempest V.

J_A_B, you must have missed the part about the aircraft being borrowed from operational squadrons.

Wheter bomb racks or drop tanks are needed is mission dependant. Also how far from your base of operations your mission is. These planes could reach Germany from bases in Holland without drop tanks, no problem

Funked, Tempest Vs had either Sabre IIA or IIB engines. I think AH uses the Tempest V Series II with Sabre IIA with full nominal boost of +9 lb/sq.in. A bit strong by my data but plausible.

J_A_B · « **Reply #7 on:** June 24, 2002, 07:31:25 PM »

I'm also sure you'd be interested in the reports that the Mustang III could reach 4400 FPM climbrate using the 150-octane gas an some stuff stripped off. Interesting debate it makes for, whether this was true.

Personally, I think the way we have these aircraft already modeled in AH is a better representation of their "average" wartime abilities. Every country did some flight testing with pristine aircraft that performed way above what they'd normally do "in the field". Still, if the LW guys get to post data showing off the best performance of of their pet plane, the Allied guys should by all means do so too

BTW I fly a 51D for virtually 100% of my time in AH, so I'm definately not biased against you

J_A_B

funkedup · « **Reply #8 on:** June 24, 2002, 07:42:24 PM »

Here's a table I made a year or two ago.
IIRC both Lumsden and White agreed that Sabre IV and V were used on Tempest V. They didn't say how many though.

mw · « **Reply #9 on:** June 24, 2002, 09:18:19 PM »

Hey J_A_B, I hear ya. I have the A &AEE reports on the Mustang III, and yes they are certainly interesting

"I think the way we have these aircraft already modeled in AH is a better representation of their "average" wartime abilities."

That's certainly not the case with the Spit IX. I have quite a lot of WWII era testing data and I can only tell ou that in many cases the aircraft tested sure were not pristine. Case in point was the LF IX that funked referenced in an ealier post that was actually a weary Spit V conversion (JL.165).

I only bother posting actual performance of certain WWII era aircraft that I am interested in for the history buffs who might be also be interested in such material. I share what I can. Its not for the gamers worried about a gaming edge. With all the talk about MW-50 and GM-1 around here, a bit of historical reality and balanced presentation couldn't hurt

The fact is the RAF had planes on operations with increased boost limits due to use of 150 octane fuel. Attention to maintenance helped performance as well. Its history, it happened. Whether that fact gets simulated in this game is for the producers to decide.

Nice chart funked. A friend knowlegeable about such things recently informed me that "According to Francis K Mason the Sabre IIb was used in the last 2 batches of Tempest V, 400 aircraft, delivered between 9-44 and 6-45. The only performance figures I have found are those that regularly appear in print, 392 mph at SL etc." I don't know about the others.

J_A_B · « **Reply #10 on:** June 24, 2002, 09:36:05 PM »

"With all the talk about MW-50 and GM-1 around here, a bit of historical reality and balanced presentation couldn't hurt "

Absolutely! A bit of a reminder..."Hey, the Allied guys did it too"

J_A_B

Karnak · « **Reply #11 on:** June 24, 2002, 10:08:47 PM »

In AH these aircraft have a top sea level speed of:

Spitfire Mk XIV: 360mph
P-51D Mustang: 367mph
Tempest Mk V: 385mph

According to that chart these aircraft had a top sea level speed of:

Spitfire Mk XIV: 396mph
Tempest Mk V: 404mph
P-51D Mustang: 405mph

According to that chart, the draggy slow assed Spitfire Mk XIV they tested would outrun the AH Tempest Mk V at sea level.

Well, that would certainly make the Spitfire Mk XIV worth the perk points.

However, like with the ultimate German machines discussed in other threads, I do not think that this would be a good thing for the game.

F4UDOA · « **Reply #12 on:** June 24, 2002, 10:30:28 PM »

Wow!!

It's really not surprising considering the same Mustangs in todays Airracing stripped to 7,000LBS and 3,000HP can run lap speeds at Reno on a 7 mile course of 480MPH and MAX at 500MPH on the tree tops. Is it really any surprise that they could make 400MPH with high octane fuel??

Pongo · « **Reply #13 on:** June 24, 2002, 11:18:24 PM »

I looked into it one time..and I think to get a spit vb to perform like ours does it has to be tricked out like that. polished. spit ix pipes etc etc..

Hristo · « **Reply #14 on:** June 25, 2002, 01:49:33 AM »

Considering August 1944, it is still by far too slow for fastest German rides

.

How about 262 tweaking ? Low drag canopy, for instance...