Author Topic: upgrading mobo RAM cpu (Read 659 times)

Kaz · « **on:** June 24, 2002, 08:11:14 PM »

after reading a few of the latest posts here i've realized that i don't know squat about currently available components. i want to upgrade my mobo cpu and RAM while keeping my existing sound & graphics cards (also have an ethernet card for the network i'm on). thx to those that responded with the AMD suggestions but i'm not ready to change atm, if it aint broke...

so what mobo with p4 cpu and RAM can i get from mid to high range? not interested in mobos with built in sound etc. *cough* AKWarp *cough*

but if ya know of any others please let me know

AKWarp · « **Reply #1 on:** June 24, 2002, 11:28:59 PM »

Well..heh..really it's kinda hard to find boards these days that don't have at least sound and 10/100 LAN built in...but that doens't mean you HAVE to use it either. I just went on about the sound on the Dragon Ultra because it's 6 channel sound is pretty damn good compared to those crappy AC97 codec junkers that come on most boards.

As for the P4 and it not being broke...you're right...the only thing that will be broke is your wallet

It is afterall your money and going P4 or AMD is a good choice either way. Sticking to the upper end CPU's will give good performance no matter what....but my wife has taught me over the years to be a penny pincher.....it's hard to justify a CPU that costs 3 times as much and doesn't perform any better. You're case may be different.

Dropping this kind of cash on a system mandates that it give you a warm fuzzy about your purchase...so if you don't think AMD will do that...no harm done.

Kaz · « **Reply #2 on:** June 25, 2002, 12:08:08 PM »

all right u have my attention hehe yeah the intel cpu's are expensive and only perform noticeable better than AMD cpu's with that new RAM what's it called RDRAM or something. one thing i wanna clear up though...what's all this i've been hearing about heat in the AMD systems, is this common or only a problem in the overclocked ones? how about a comparison of a high end AMD mobo,cpu,RAM compared to an intel version? convince me to switch to AMD

Skuzzy · « **Reply #3 on:** June 25, 2002, 01:56:08 PM »

Kaz, the ASUS P4B266-C is a good motherboard without any goodies added (no sound, no lan...).

It is only compaitble with the 400Mhz P4's though. If you want to use the newer 533Mhz FSB P4's, then the P4T533-C is a good one with no add on goodies too.

AMD makes a good CPU, but the support chips have been the issue. I would say if you feel like you are someone who likes to tweak around with your computer, I see no problem with AMD.
On the other hand, if you just want it to work and not mess with it, then Intel is a better choice.
There are tradeoffs going either way.

AMD CPU's run very hot and you have to take great care with the cooling of your system. The Intel Northwood cores run pretty cool at comparable clock speeds and do not need that much attention. The OEM fan that comes with the Intel chip is more than ample for cooling it.

Ther are 3 common types of RAM on the market today.
SDxxx - This is basically static ram. Where the 'xxx' is would be the front side bus (FSB) speed. Either 100 or 133. These typically are packaged in DIMMS (dual inline memory modules)

RDRAM - Also known as RAMBUS memory. Packaged in RIMMS. I only know enough to stay away from this type of memory. Hard to find and more costly. I think there is only one manufacturer of this ram.

DDRRAM (Double Data Rate RAM) also known as PC1600 (100Mhz FSB), PC2100 (133Mhz FSB), PC2700(167Mhz FSB) and possibly a few others ( I think I have the FSB paired to the right numbers). Basically, this is SDRAM that has the ability to transfer data on both the rising and falling edge of the clock cycle, which can yeild higher performance. In truth, the performance gain over standard SD ram is about 10 to 15 percent.

Hope that helps.

Kaz · « **Reply #4 on:** June 25, 2002, 09:23:29 PM »

yes that did help alot thanks skuzzy

i was doing a lil research myself and u just filled in the gaps and confirmed what i read about the other stuff. didn't know the asus p4b266 was for 400Mhz fsb p4s got a lot of info on the p4t533 though...seems it's a pretty good mobo.
read up on the AMD's and yeah they do have that heating problem but they're also alot cheaper and work fairly to very well with games. that said, i am a tinkerer but not that much so i'll stick with intel.
barton chip is coming out soon if it's not already out but i'll still prefer intel. right now i'm looking at an asus p4t533-c mobo with a p4 2.26Ghz with 533Mhz fsb cpu and 2x 256 184 pin 800Mhz RDRAM which will come up to between $540-$610.00
not sure if RDRAM is made by one manufacturer but there are different companies supplying them and i read samsung's RDRAM is pretty stable with the aforementioned asus mobo.
like i said i've been doing a lil research

thanks again for your responses everyone now to start saving up for this upgrade

AKWarp · « **Reply #5 on:** June 25, 2002, 11:00:37 PM »

Hold on there just a sec pardner!

There ain't no heat problem with the AMD's! Yes, they do run hotter than a P4 on average, but the chips are made to withstand it also. You aren't required to buy some mega-expensive aftermarket device to keep it cool. If you buy a retail AMD CPU, the stock heatsink and fan will keep it running well within specs easily. Only when overclocking is the mega-heat sinks a must. Most folks recommend aftermarket heat sinks simply because they are cheap and they do work better than the OEM stuff. Bottom line is, if you aren't overclocking, you have nothing to worry about. And no, you don't need 10 fans in your case either.

On a nitpicky note, SDRAM is not static, it is dynamic

Static RAM is about 10 times faster than dynamic RAM, but it's also about 20 times the price (hence it is primarily used as cache RAM and/or in limited amounts on such things as video cards, etc).

I would love to have a gig of static system memory...that thing would fly!

Having to tinker with an AMD system to get it run is hogwash also. Some of the very early chipsets did have problems, but that's a thing of the past. Any of the newer socket A boards will run just fine without any tinkering. The only thing you have to do is ensure you have the latest drivers, etc...but that holds true for any system, regardless of make or CPU.

I fully admit, if I had the money to spare and felt I could justify a $600 CPU, I'd have a 2.53ghz P4 system....but the minimal performance gain over the newly available AMD XP 2200 (at 1/3rd the price) just makes it way too hard to ignore.

Kaz · « **Reply #6 on:** June 25, 2002, 11:27:13 PM »

oh great why thank u Warp for throwing a wrench in my machine j/k

thanks for the additional info. i'll be pulling my hair out in the mean time, back to the drawing board...hehee

Tumor · « **Reply #7 on:** June 26, 2002, 12:43:38 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Skuzzy

RDRAM - Also known as RAMBUS memory. Packaged in RIMMS. I only know enough to stay away from this type of memory. Hard to find and more costly. I think there is only one manufacturer of this ram.

DUDE??? RDRAM is the best stuff I've used so far. Never had a bit of trouble finding it or trouble with it. A 512mg stick is $4 more than a 512 of PC3200 too. Only problem is you gotta run RDRAM in pairs. The 533 stuff's gonna be even better. Thats not to say I wouldn't run a P4 with DDR were I building a system now.

Anyway, check this stuff out guys, and remember it's coming from a guy who's had his head stuck so far up the arnold of AMD for the last couple years I really thought he'd never see daylight again.

http://www4.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q2/020610/index.html

http://www6.tomshardware.com/mainboard/02q2/020624/index.html

Skuzzy · « **Reply #8 on:** June 26, 2002, 08:26:24 AM »

Poor wording on my part about the SDRAM. OY! (I need to drink my coffee before making posts). Thanks for keeping it honest Warp. It is actually Synchronous Dynamic Random Access Memory. Oy!

I agree, and I hope I did not mislead, about the AMD heat issue. They do run much hotter than the Northwood P4's, but they always have. Due to the heat, you do need to make sure your case is well ventilated (i.e. no hot spots and good air flow) to insure the heat does not effect other components. This is not meant as a panic type of thing, it is just prudent caution.
I have known guys that took out thier Intel motherboards, replaced them with AMD and have them die, as the only case fan they had was the power supply fan. In one case, it was not the CPU that died, but one of the surrounding components near the CPU.

The only reason I shy away from RDRAM is the costs versus the actual improvement in performance. You can find the ram, but it is not as prevalent as the other types of ram.

Kaz · « **Reply #9 on:** June 26, 2002, 01:20:44 PM »

that sounds like a heat problem to me i've never had to even think about heat inside my cpu using intel processors. but like Warp said and i researched it to confirm this. the problem is with the older AMDs the newer ones come with a massive heatsink and fan most often with a copper contact for more efficient heat transfer to the heat sink. anyways i think i might just wait for the Barton to come out and see how that fairs. one thing i do have is patience especially when it comes to upgrading/buying stuff that i want to last a fair amount of time

MrRiplEy[H] · « **Reply #10 on:** June 26, 2002, 02:08:39 PM »

From the tests I've read, a P4 system equipped with SDRAM is quite a bit slower (neutered is the word I saw used) compared to the RDRAM boards.

I saw a benchmark with a P4 1.5Ghz with SDRAM running at equal speed with 1Ghz P3 SDRAM. With RDRAM the same CPU performed 30% better.

Sorry I can't remember any links atm, the sdram vs rdram issue was up many months ago when the first p4 sdram boards came to the public. The reviewers common opinnion was and is that sdram boards are good and cheap for business use, but any hardcore users such as gamers should invest in rdram or buy AMD instead if they want budget.

Skuzzy · « **Reply #11 on:** June 26, 2002, 02:58:49 PM »

RDRAM is faster, but in real use, only about 10-15% faster than PC2700 ram. Considering the cost is much higher than that, I cannot justify it.
That is just me,..I also do not like the more difficult nature of finding the RDRAM. It's not like you can go into any old computer store and buy it.
I also look at the chip set that has to be used for RDRAM. The Intel stuff is pretty flaky. I do not know if that is true of other chip makers.

AKWarp · « **Reply #12 on:** June 26, 2002, 08:08:02 PM »

Well, don't get too stuck on your RDRAM, or DDR SDRAM, etc...IBM has been working on magneitc memory now for about 30 years...it seems they have not only perfected it, but now have it scaled enough to offer 256MB "sticks".

The cool thing about MRAM -- it doesn't require constant refreshes ala dynamic RAM, it is non-volatile, and really fast.

One of the "predicted" uses is for "instant-on" computers...no more waiting for your system to boot since the entire boot-up and load sequence will simply reside in the non-volitile MRAM. Just turn it in, and POOF, you're in.

IBM is aiming to release MRAM in things such as PDA's, cell-phones, etc by next year with full-scale use in desk-top PC's by 2004.

In addition to that, "desk-top" holographic storage is also a reality. By using a laser to write "data" onto and into a lithium-niobate crystal cube or light sensitive polymer material allows literally terrabytes of data to be stored in a 1 centimeter square cube!

The functionality is way cool, and frankly quite simple. A laser beam is split. One beam passes through a tiny LCD screen (called a "Spacial Light Modulator"). Each pixel of the LCD screen represents one bit of data. The reflected image of this "page" of data is shined onto the crystal. The second beam that was split initally is shined onto the cube at precise right angles. Using "standard" hologram recording principles this way, this "writes" the data onto or into the cube. By aligning the lasers perfectly, the data is literally written in molecule thick layers througout the entire volume of the cube, not just on the surface.

To read the data, a single laser beam is passed through at a precise angle to read a specific page of the data. This reflection is shown onto a tiny CCD which translates the data into bits and sent on its way.

The biggest drawbacks right now are size of the laser, mirrors, CCD, etc, hence the term "desk-top" storage since the device will not fit into a computer case just yet. Also, the more holograms recorded, then the weaker the holograms become. At some point, the reference laser will pick up background interference from other holograms and in effect, you have scrambled data.

Again, IBM is working on this and they have predicted a possible 125GB storage, 40MB per second transfer rate holographic storage device available to the consumer as early as next year.

MrRiplEy[H] · « **Reply #13 on:** June 27, 2002, 02:55:06 AM »

With IBM's reputation they'll be lucky if anyone dares to buy another IBM harddrive..

Chairboy · « **Reply #14 on:** June 27, 2002, 03:15:02 AM »

Seeing as how IBM has announced they are leaving the hard drive market, that probably won't be a problem.