We need to fire the Senate

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by Ripsnort


So why did the court not do the proper thing and ban the Pledge  in School? Instead they just banned the pledge, and pissed off every American senator and congress person.  Most of the guys in this thread are standing alone on this issue! Wake up!

Think about that one for a minute. If it is wrong in a school (state institution) then it must be wrong in all state institutions. The court did the courageous thing, the morally right thing, the only thing that makes sense when measured against our constitution. This issue is incredibly black and white. Mentioning God, is not appropriate in a State sponsored institution! We aren't tossing God out the window! We're saying we don't prefer one religion over another!

[koala]

What energy problems? Now that Enron is gone, things seem okay.

I guess the 50% rate hike in my Washington State energy bill is just a figment of my imagination.  A hike caused by California's inability to generate it's own power, and instead having to take it from the rest of the Western United States.  But I'm glad things seem okay for you.

[Elfenwolf]

I don't know how courageous the Court was, MT. They simply did their job. What WOULD have been courageous would have been for even one Senator to oppose the resolution comdemning the 9th Circuit Court's ruling. Unfortunately politicians are all gutless potatos who choose to serve themselves rather then the USA.

[midnight Target]

Maybe you're right Elfie, but this whole issue with the conservatives ranting about morality is laughable. When a judge is appointed by a conservative they always point out how "this judge is a strict Constitutionalist". "Liberals judges make new laws, conservative judges just apply the Constitution."

Now that the Constitution has been upheld, they rant on about the Moral degradation of the Country! Hypocritical IMHO.

[Elfenwolf]

The unfortunate part of this whole thing is that all it managed to do was deflect from two important Supreme Court rulings today- one on random drug testing for High School students and the other on the constitutionality of school vouchers.

I'm more concerned with random drug testing of school kids than I am with what is basically a symbolic act like a Pledge to God and Country. We all know that's roadkill anyway. Testing my kid randomly for drugs violates her rights and my responsibility.

[GRUNHERZ]

We're saying we don't prefer one religion over another!

And which religion does "God" prefer?  

[Elfenwolf]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
We're saying we don't prefer one religion over another!

And which religion does "God" prefer?  

Ask a Hindu who God is and chances are they won't know. Ask a Taoist. Ask a Buddhist. Ask an athiest. Then tell them they not only have to pledge allegiance to our Nation but also recognize a particular religion as being superior to their own beliefs.

Oh, I know what you're going to say GRUNHERZ. The seperation between Church and State was to keep the different sects of Protistants from fighting. Isn't it amazing how such a simple concept has expanded in modern times to include ALL religions and ALL beliefs?? Thank God (or Allah, or Vishna, or whoever) we established such a Great Nation that welcomes all irregardless of their religions.

[Fatty]

Amusingly enough, the pledge was originally written by a socialist.  Hardly one that wanted "under God" added in.

[GRUNHERZ]

Seperation of church and state meant just that.  Meaning that government could not decree an official religion.  Nowhere did that say the government couldnt use the word god, its in the diddlying founding document of the country. The decleration of independence.


HERE:

 When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's GOD entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their CREATOR with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --


Lets go and remove these obvious references to god and creation, they are so so awul.


BTW I dont go to church or anything and I firmly belive in Evolution, Im basically a non religion type, so dont give me any religion nut BS.

[koala]

Think about this rationally and you'll agree with the majority opinion written by Judge Alfred T. Goodwin, a Nixon appointee, BTW- "A profession that we are a nation "under God' is identical...to a profession that we are a nation 'under Jesus,' a nation 'under Vishnu,' a nation 'under Zeus,' or a nation 'under no god' because none of these professions can be neutral with respect to religion."

I have thought about it rationally and I disagree with the opinion.  Maybe if you think about it rationally you'll disagree as well.  We'll see if the Supreme Court agrees how "rational" it is, or if it even stands in the 9th Circuit.  Apparently the Judge has set aside the ruling "indefinitely" so it can be further examined by the entire 9th district.

[-dead-]

Who is Nature's God?

Interesting reading about it.
I wonder if Jefferson would still be a deist if he had had the choice of Darwin's theory of evolution?

But the pledge god is a 1954 "God" - so I guess that means good old Xian, reformed JHVH-1.

[Elfenwolf]

Originally posted by koala


I have thought about it rationally and I disagree with the opinion.  Maybe if you think about it rationally you'll disagree as well.  We'll see if the Supreme Court agrees how "rational" it is, or if it even stands in the 9th Circuit.  Apparently the Judge has set aside the ruling "indefinitely" so it can be further examined by the entire 9th district.

The Supreme Court will overturn this, but it'll be like their drug testing decision where they'll acknowledge they're violating peoples' rights but the common good is to eradicate drugs from schools, therefore we can "bend the rules" so to speak.

Sorry I got so excited at the prospect of the Constitution being upheld but these last few months I've watched our civil rights eliminated one at a time to the point where the Conservatives are getting exactly what they want- a tolitarian state where if you don't fit in you must get out.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Elfenwolf
...to the point where the Conservatives are getting exactly what they want- a tolitarian state where if you don't fit in you must get out.

meanwhile in the secret conservative evil headquarters...

Vicious conservative leader:[/b] Greetings my fellow wrongdoers.

Evil conservative nr 1: Greetings my most vicious and evil leader. I am happy to report that we have tricked the senate into condemning the federal court ruling against the Pledge of Allegiance.

Evil conservative nr 2: Yes, yes, and we even fooled them into reciting of the Pledge, in front of a massive media coverage.

Vicious conservative leader: Yes, yes...good muahaha (evil laughter). Now we are one step closer to our goal of creating a totalitarian state. All us evil conservatives strive for this secret  deplorable goal. I am happy to see that our secret plot to abolish democracy is working well.

Evil nerd nr 1[/b]: Wait oh foul one, I spot a danger on the Aces High BB.

Everyone turns to the computer screen

Vicious conservative leader: ..what is this?? Who is this clever Elfenwolf, and how can he know our secret vile plot?

turns to Evil Black Helicopter pilot nr 1

Vicious conservative leader: Evil black helicopter pilot nr 1. Prepare the little black chopper, and follow him around. Find out how much he knows.

Evil Black Helicopter pilot nr 1:[/b] Yes sire.

---To be continued...

[Elfenwolf]

ROFLMAO  Hortlund!! You made me spit coffee!!! And anyway the Conservatives don't need black helicopters to follow me around, they've implanted a beacon device in my brain.

[Eagler]

didn't know they made them that small