Author Topic: Red Skelton - Pledge of Allegiance (Read 2993 times)

Ozark · « **on:** June 27, 2002, 07:09:01 PM »

To me, Red Skelton was always a class act! I loved watching his show on CBS. The NBC years were limited and short lived.

I remember having this (45 RPM) record.

Ozark

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Commentary on the Pledge of Allegiance
by Red Skelton

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As a schoolboy, one of Red Skelton's teachers explained the words and meaning of the Pledge of Allegiance to his class. Skelton later wrote down, and eventually recorded, his recollection of this lecture. It is followed by an observation of his own.

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I - - Me; an individual; a committee of one.

Pledge - - Dedicate all of my worldly goods to give without self-pity.

Allegiance - - My love and my devotion.

To the Flag - - Our standard; Old Glory ; a symbol of Freedom; wherever she waves there is respect, because your loyalty has given her a dignity that shouts, Freedom is everybody's job.

United - - That means that we have all come together.

States - - Individual communities that have united into forty-eight great states. Forty-eight individual communities with pride and dignity and purpose. All divided with imaginary boundaries, yet united to a common purpose, and that is love for country.

And to the Republic - - Republic--a state in which sovereign power is invested in representatives chosen by the people to govern. And government is the people; and it's from the people to the leaders, not from the leaders to the people.

For which it stands

One Nation - - One Nation--meaning, so blessed by God.

Indivisible - - Incapable of being divided.

With Liberty - - Which is Freedom; the right of power to live one's own life, without threats, fear, or some sort of retaliation.

And Justice - - The principle, or qualities, of dealing fairly with others.

For All - - For All--which means, boys and girls, it's as much your country as it is mine.

And now, boys and girls, let me hear you recite the Pledge of Allegiance:

I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic, for which it stands; one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country, and two words have been added to the Pledge of Allegiance: Under God. Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer, and that would be eliminated from schools, too?

Red Skelton

Eagler · « **Reply #1 on:** June 27, 2002, 07:58:19 PM »

it's even more powerful when you hear Red recite it himself

Gunthr · « **Reply #2 on:** June 27, 2002, 08:33:15 PM »

Whoever thought we'd be reading about blow jobs in the oval office, or see the day America is attacked on her own land killing thousands of Americans, and then within a years time see the Pledge of Allegance declared unconstitutional....

I don't think I'd be anymore surprized than if aliens landed in Washington DC!

Sandman · « **Reply #3 on:** June 28, 2002, 10:44:47 AM »

Red was right about everything but the "under God" part, IMHO.

Nifty · « **Reply #4 on:** June 28, 2002, 11:07:39 AM »

we are very much in the minority here, Sandman.

"One Nation - - One Nation--meaning, so blessed by God.
Indivisible - - Incapable of being divided. "

first, I see nothing in One Nation that implies "so blessed by God." I definitely do not believe in that.

second. The two words added to the Pledge in 1954 are dividing us. Obviously not in half, yet enough that the 9th Circuit Court had to make a ruling on whether or not the Pledge is a federal endorsement of religion.

However, majority rules in a republic/democracy. 99-0 (and you know damn well Mr. Helms would have made it 100-0) in the Senate. If it had to come down to it, both houses in Congress could have the Amendment that "the word God in federal use is NOT an endorsement of religion, and therefore does not infringe on the 1st Amendment" before the states to ratify in no time at all. The states would easily ratify it and we'd have a new Amendment to the Constitution in record time.

Eagler says it's sad to see religion being tossed aside in our time. I say it's sad to see religion being shoved down our throats for the past 48 years because of two words Congress added to the Pledge.

You have to experience it to understand. My heart goes out to the child of the parent who brought this up in the first place. I know firsthand what SHE has to deal with.

Sandman · « **Reply #5 on:** June 28, 2002, 11:20:48 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nifty
we are very much in the minority here, Sandman.

Look at the bright side, Nifty. If there is a hell, we'll know why we're there.

J_A_B · « **Reply #6 on:** June 28, 2002, 11:31:14 AM »

Tell me, what religion does "under god" advocate?

Is "under god" Catholic? Baptist? Methodist? Lutheran? Anglican? Amish? Mennonite? Apostolic? Episcopal? Mormon? Jewish?

Sorry, "Christianity" isn't a religion, and indeed "god" isn't strictly Christian in the first place. It is a faith that several Churches are based on, but is itself not an organized religion. Hence, IMO, "under god" doesn't constitute a governmental support of any specific Church. Can you see a difference between "under god" and "under the Catholic Church"?

An expression of faith and an endorsement of a specific religion are NOT the same things. The Constitution requires "Separation of Church and State"....it does NOT require "separation of faith and state". There is an important difference between the two.

Personally I think people should be taught to say the Pledge using whatever god they believe in....an Arab should say "under Allah", and so on. Or just "on nation indivisible" for agnostics.

BTW, I myself don't go to church and take no part in any organized religion......I really don't care whether the words "under god" are in the Pledge or not.....that's just the issue as I see it.

J_A_B

rogwar · « **Reply #7 on:** June 28, 2002, 11:41:46 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Gunthr
Whoever thought we'd be reading about blow jobs in the oval office, or see the day America is attacked on her own land killing thousands of Americans, and then within a years time see the Pledge of Allegance declared unconstitutional....

Man isn't that the truth

miko2d · « **Reply #8 on:** June 28, 2002, 11:49:50 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by J_A_B
Tell me, what religion does "under god" advocate?
Is "under god" Catholic? Baptist? Methodist? Lutheran? Anglican? Amish? Mennonite? Apostolic? Episcopal? Mormon? Jewish?

Even if you hippocritically pretend that you do not know which God it refers to, it's still more about who it excludes - atheism, any female goddess worship, polytheism, ancestor worship, paganism, devil worship, etc.

miko

Wingnut_0 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 28, 2002, 11:59:44 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by J_A_B
Tell me, what religion does "under god" advocate?

Is "under god" Catholic? Baptist? Methodist? Lutheran? Anglican? Amish? Mennonite? Apostolic? Episcopal? Mormon? Jewish?

J_A_B

Err...Jab..everything you names is based on Christianity/Judaism. So you answered your own question, "Under god" was meant to reflect Christianity/Judiasm and not any other religion except that.

Skuzzy · « **Reply #10 on:** June 28, 2002, 12:06:59 PM »

People are turning this into a religious issue. They are just words on paper or spoken. It takes people to distort said words into some other agenda.

God is a word. That is all it is. If you chose to unite that word to something other than an omnipotent being (the defination), then it is your choice and you have your right to your opinion.

I think it is a sad commentary on how we choose to twist things around to meet some agenda that would cause angst among people.

Tell me,...does saying the phrase, "Under God" dictate you believe in any God? To me, saying this is just an acceptance of being a citizen of the United States. My pledge of allegiance to my country is in my heart, and the words of the pledge are just an acknowledgement to others I am proud to be a citizen of the United States.

Whether you believe in any religion or not is irrelevant, in my opinion. For me, it is about believing in my country. Make it what you will, as it is certainly your choice to do so.

J_A_B · « **Reply #11 on:** June 28, 2002, 12:15:41 PM »

That's what I'm getting at--it doesn't MATTER which god it referrs to. The point I'm trying to make is FAITH is not the same thing as RELIGION. If you'd stop for a minute and realize that I'm not some fundamentalist moron trying to shove religion down your throat, maybe you'd realize that.

You don't have to like it. To be honest, *I* don't particularly like it.

For those people who feel excluded....why can't they just say it the way they like it? What is so hard about saying "one nation, under Allah"? (A girl I went to school with did exactly that.)

I still want to know which Church you think that phrase supports. School vouchers are FAR more constitutionally "iffy" than this phrase IMO.

J_A_B

-sudz- · « **Reply #12 on:** June 28, 2002, 12:40:33 PM »

I think Jab's got something. If 50 years ago they had added "under Allah" instead of the Judeo-Christian name, (even if, by all accounts, they represent the same entity), how long would it have taken for the Supreme Court to overrule that addition? Not 50 years, I'm sure.

The basis for founding the colonies was to be able to live a new life away from the religious persecution and social handcuffing of the old countries. To force everyone to pay homage to the Judeo-Christian ethos by tying loyalty to your faith was a stupid decision in the first place. It's one thing to have the word "God" on all the money, but forcing lip service in a sacred pledge is a slap in the face.

Besides, if you force someone to say "under God" who's an athiest (or even agnostic), by your own standards you are forcing that person to sin by taking the name of God in vain. I thought the idea was to reduce sinfulness in the secular world. (And this is probably the most inflamatory part of this post - be warned ) What I'm hearing is the same old half-assed, ill-thought-out, knee-jerk "logic" I've come to expect from the run-of-the-mill religious advocate.

Those who force their religious beliefs on others in America ARE NOT Americans in spirit. They've forgotton our roots and our revolution and why we came here to begin with.

-Sudz

PS I think that this is the first time ever a religious question has caused controversey and arguments. Go figure

Wingnut_0 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 28, 2002, 12:43:00 PM »

Skuzzy,

Then take the words out and it can go back to being a pledge to this country.

JAB,

That phrase was added to mean "god" as in the Xian god. It doesn't support Joe Blow's organized Falwell money collecting church, it supports the belief in the Xian god by it's use.

Both of you seem to believe that it's just a word. Like I said in one of these threads that still wasn't addressed by any of the Xians here is that if that word was Goddess or (insert name), no Xian would stand to have that included. They wouldn't say it and would be boycotting everyone from Disney to Proctor & Gamble to get it thrown out of use. So why should anyone that is not a Xian or doesn't believe in that just glance over that word. They shouldn't.

That word means something to them, it means something that they don't stand for and if you can easily just ignore a phrase in the pledge then the pledge itself is meaningless and no more than words. Take the religious reference out of the Pledge and no more problem.

Eagler · « **Reply #14 on:** June 28, 2002, 12:45:49 PM »

why has it been ok since '54 and all of a sudden ppl are threatened by it?

politics - pure and simple