Author Topic: b-17 duribility (Read 632 times)

Hristo · « **Reply #15 on:** July 02, 2002, 12:11:22 AM »

Sometimes they seem tough, other times they go down on first pass.

Depends where you hit them.

I met a pilot named Zizouuu, he always manages to bring down a bomber with first pings. It is just great to watch !

addy · « **Reply #16 on:** July 02, 2002, 02:18:08 AM »

Last week I was watching my favorite TV station, The History channel. On their program "history on film" they where playing "memphis belle". We all know that the movie is BASED on the real story but drifts away from it for the excitment quotion. Anyway, before the movie starts, they go oversome of the "historical facts" of the movie and the b-17. Out of over 8000 B17's stationed in England, only 2000 survived the war....hmmm that is a surval rate of 25%!!!!!
Just another little neat tidbit...the crew of the memphis belle was alive and saw the movie when it was released!!!

Mushkin1uk · « **Reply #17 on:** July 02, 2002, 03:02:50 AM »

Wouldnt you just hate to be that tail gunner;)

illo · « **Reply #18 on:** July 02, 2002, 03:47:26 AM »

Hits needed to shoot down four engined bomber. (Netw. Treffenanzahl). Made by studying gun camera footages and counting averages. 8. 2. 1945

DarkglamJG52 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 02, 2002, 04:55:19 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by illo
Hits needed to shoot down four engined bomber. (Netw. Treffenanzahl). Made by studying gun camera footages and counting averages. 8. 2. 1945

Info about MG 213/30? Seems terrifying. What airplanes use it weapon?

Hristo · « **Reply #20 on:** July 02, 2002, 05:03:55 AM »

Now where did the MG 213 info come from ? AFAIK, they were only prototypes.

illo · « **Reply #21 on:** July 02, 2002, 06:02:31 AM »

Yes, i think that is just estimate basing on other 20/30mm weapons.

Amount of explosive in its mineshell equals other mine rounds of same caliber.

MG 213 was only on some prototype aircrafts. Atleast 1 Ta-152 was equipped with Mg 213 revolver-cannons, which were the base for todays ADEN and DEFA cannons. There was many plans using this cannon on aircraft at design stage. As few examples Arado TEW 16/43-23(cancelled due to Ar234 production and design needs in 1944) and HO 13 B supersonic fighter (planned to be flying by mid-46).

gatso · « **Reply #22 on:** July 02, 2002, 07:05:58 AM »

I hope these show up...

If not go have a look at The Battle Damaged B17 Site Because thats where I found them all.

Anyone ever dropped bombs on another Buff in here? Looks like there was more than 1 occasion where it happened in action.

Gatso

Taiaha · « **Reply #23 on:** July 02, 2002, 07:36:13 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by NOD2000

It just pisses me off so bad when i climb up to 15k mabey 10k and get hit by 1 20mm and my whole wings rips off......... and i have seen many gun cams on the 109's 190's etc etc etc etc and they show them taking beating after beating after beating after beating........... and no i am not a bad gunner or anything hell my high is 25 kills in the 26....... but i've just seen way to many instances on AH that my plane goes down under stupid cercumstances................ . oh yea my favorite is the mustang or p47 with the same D* .50's i got hit me mabey 10-15 times and end 3 & 4 are dead with no alerion or flap....... and if i hit him 10 - 15 times nothing bad happens to him...........

First of all Kronos is right about the number of pings being no way to judge how much damage you are taking. AH only approximates sound to actual damage, and at times lag can make that wildly inaccurate.

Secondly, the P47 is a fearsome weapon. Measured in weight of fire per second 8 50s put out an amount of lead roughly equivalent to a couple of 30mm shells. In a ground-strafing role p47s were known to overturn trains when hitting them along the side, and the recoil from the guns would often slow the plane up to 50mph on a prolonged burst.

Thirdly, there's a reason 1 pass kills are common in AH whereas they were much rarer (although not as rare as you may think) in real life, and it's got nothing to do with damage modelling, and everything to do with the entirely different conditions that prevail in the MA.

Fighters are, in the first place, usually attacking solo bombers, so they don't have to worry about the defensive fire from an entire formation. That means that you can hold your attack longer and put in a lot more lead than most LW pilots were able to do in a single pass. And in the second place, in AH you are usually attacking unescorted bombers; if you have no defending fighters to worry about you can take time to set up a much better attack angle, rather than having to take whatever was on offer when you arrived on the scene, as most LW pilots had to do.

Gatso, thanks for the tip for that battle damage site, just what I've been looking for for a scale model project.

Turbot · « **Reply #24 on:** July 02, 2002, 08:41:48 AM »

These words may sound like this, but they aren't spelled but a certain way.

duribility = durability
luftwaffa = luftwaffe
mabey = maybe
cercumstances = circumstances

...and I will Bet Mr. Dolittle would appreciate if when you quote him you don't have people think he didn't know how to spell Japanese

(japanise)

NOD2000 · « **Reply #25 on:** July 02, 2002, 08:47:44 AM »

sorry man i am dyslexic...............can't help i can't spell right ok?

Ghosth · « **Reply #26 on:** July 02, 2002, 09:36:40 AM »

How much did do you think the average WWII fighter jock flying a p51 or P47 had total shooting his guns?

Remember, Yeager got 5 kills, got shot down, rejoined after 6 weeks, when he got back in the field he only had 6 missions where he even saw LW planes.

So Even if we are generous and give each pilot a half hour of actual shooting time.

Now how many hours do you have flying AH and how much shooting time have you accumulated? I have been flying for 6 + years ever since May of 96. How many hours do I have of trigger time? Has to be up in the DAYS now not hours.

We hone our skills WAY past what any normal fighter pilot in WWII ever had a chance to do.

Is it any wonder that a good pilot can make a b17 go down in one pass?

Plus when we hear ping ping ping do we break like a real pilot would have? Or continue our attack knowing that we just respawn again.

Kronos · « **Reply #27 on:** July 02, 2002, 10:12:11 AM »

P47 fires 12 lbs of lead in one minute. One of the reasons I like the bird so much.

Also, with the oncoming 1.10, bomber strategy is going to change alot. I know I for one will have to come up with a new way to attack them, because coming down from atop won't work so well.

6x 50 cals does enough damage.

Although, I expect they will have a convergence pattern much similar to wing mounted guns, prolly a little wider pattern.

Samm · « **Reply #28 on:** July 02, 2002, 11:32:38 AM »

Don't you mean 12lbs a second ?

HFMudd · « **Reply #29 on:** July 02, 2002, 11:33:47 AM »

Quote

In a ground-strafing role p47s were known to overturn trains when hitting them along the side,

Um, yeah... I don't suppose you would care to post a reference for that one would you? One of those nasty little laws of physics things that seem to get in the way of so many a good yarn would tells me that, since the .50 calibre rounds are not explosive, 50% of the force required to tip a train is also being applied to each wing of the P47 over the same period of time. (In reality it would be even worse since the transfer would not be 100% efficient. That is, some rounds will miss, some energy goes into heat, some rounds richocet, some go all the way trough.)