Author Topic: Faulty Divebomb and Precision bombsites?? (Read 842 times)

Anvil · « **on:** July 06, 2002, 10:13:26 PM »

Hello AH-ers and HTC. I would have posted this in the new Q&A section but it doesn't seem to have a "new post" button.
Being my first post ever, before I get to my problem, I wanted to say "Great game HTC!!!"
To make a long story short...
I practiced bombing for many hours with no luck. I read the postings in the BB. I fully understand how to calibrate and am sure I am doing it right. I started using the divebomb site offline to practice calibrating without the time consuming process of bombing. I seemed to immediately improved at calibrating. At one point, after a great many succesful calibrations and a about a 75% average (according to the divebomb site), I decided to drop some bombs. The bombs missed by a significant distance(several bomber hangers width in distance). I tried several more times dropping bombs and they consistantly fell a considerable distance AFTER the point that the DIVEBOMB site said they would.
I turned on the "precision bombsite" The bombs missed in exactly the same manner. I was perfectly competent with the old precision bombsite so I am certain something is wrong with the precison site in this version as well as the divebomb site. I suppose I could always lead my target but that hardly seems right.
Check this out please.
-- Anvil

bozon · « **Reply #1 on:** July 06, 2002, 11:20:27 PM »

Anvil, about using the dive bomb sight for calibration practicing -
I too thought this was a good way of practicing, but after your post, I went off-line again to verify this.

you are right. the bombs drop too long acording to where the green + mark was at the time of the release.
I can think of 2 reasonable explanations:

1.
the dive bombsight is off.
I did some dive bombing with it and hit the spot, but those are relative low drops at steep angles and therefor the error was small comparing with level bombing.

2.
HTC only added drag to bombs droped from non-buffs. the buff bombs have no drag, do not slow down and hit too far ahead. if this is the reason, than we can't use the dive bomb sight with the bombers.

Bozon

Kweassa · « **Reply #2 on:** July 06, 2002, 11:30:17 PM »

Let me get this straight. Are we talking about using the dive bomb sight in level bombing?

Anvil · « **Reply #3 on:** July 07, 2002, 02:14:01 AM »

There are 2 training/offline bombsites that you can use. A dive bomb site which simply tells you where the bombs WILL fall when you release them regardless whether or not you are diving or level in any plane. And a precision bombsite for bombers that works exactly like the v.09 bombsite. If you turn them both on they line up on each other exactly. You can turn them on by going into setup/arena settings and double clicking "FlightModeFlags".

ET · « **Reply #4 on:** July 07, 2002, 07:29:28 AM »

I am being incredibly dense this A.M. and can not find my way into setups/arena to double click flagmodes. Can you provide directions to it.
My green crosshairs in TA are always 3/4 of the way up bombsite from black crosshairs. If I drop on green I get hits.If I drop on black its always way off target.

Ghosth · « **Reply #5 on:** July 07, 2002, 09:01:33 AM »

ET host a H2H game, then go to setup/arena settings.

bozon · « **Reply #6 on:** July 07, 2002, 09:40:54 AM »

if you choose the precision bomb sight, and the dive bomb sight at the same time, then when you look through the bomb sight (F6 view) you'll see them both marking the same spot.
but if you drop from high enough, you'll see that they both aim too short and the bombs drop after the target.

WTG Anvil for discovering this.
Bozon

Anvil · « **Reply #7 on:** July 07, 2002, 03:48:51 PM »

You CAN access the bombsites OFFLINE as well as in HTH. I'm looking at my offline inflight clipboard right now and "Setup" is between "Radio" and "Roster". From there it's "Arena settings" and "FlightModeFlags"
I've been testing and documenting and the error seems to stay fairly consistent in relation to speed and altitude. Last night i was able to hit the target 5 out of 8 times, without any site-aids, from 10k above ground, with careful calibration and visual error correcting at drop time. This is much better than i had been doing.

ET · « **Reply #8 on:** July 07, 2002, 05:57:10 PM »

Ty Ghosth Anvil, got it now.

bozon · « **Reply #9 on:** July 07, 2002, 08:21:11 PM »

I tried to do level bombing with a fighter, using the green cross of the dive-bomb-sight.
the cross is always too short and the bombs pass over the target. when dive bombing, this is not a problem since horizinal speed is very small comparing with the vertical speed so the bombs hit pretty good.

I still need to verify this:
Anvil, or others, when you enable dive-bomb-sight (but not pression bomb sight) and you go through the calibration proccess. does it result in having the green cross near the center of the cross-hair of the Norden (flying over ground as high as the calibrated target)?

if so, there might be a problem with the Norden bombsight (the "real" one we use in the MA).
the "perfectly calibrated" precision bombsight is overlaping with the green divebomb sight - which adds to my suspicion.

Bozon

hitech · « **Reply #10 on:** July 07, 2002, 10:07:11 PM »

Bozon try the same test over water, the 2 won't line up until the green sight crosses over the target alt. Over water the alt is always the same. And whe you gents say the green sight is off, i need to know how much.

There is also bomb dispersion in 1.10 i.e. bombs will not hit exatly where the green would show. error will increase with alt.

SKurj · « **Reply #11 on:** July 07, 2002, 10:59:11 PM »

guys... i tried to adjust the flags offline, but it says i need CM privs... how do i do that?

SKurj

Anvil · « **Reply #12 on:** July 07, 2002, 11:40:21 PM »

Bozon, In the SFMA map, in the north, there is a triangle of fields 49,69,53 between which there is a large area of very flat land at 1470ft. I used this area to practice with the Norden site and the divebomb site together. It seems that, on my best calibrations, the Norden site was very close to the dive-site.
HiTech, I don't know how to accurately measure the error in the dive-site but I have documented about 40 drops in which I dropped with the green divebomb and/or the precision site directly over the target and estimated the distance that the bombs hit from the target visaully. The bombs ALWAYS hit late, in a fairly predictable range. I did about 20 tests at 10k above target at speeds between 160 and 200 and the bombs seem to fall ABOUT the distance of 3 FHs diagonal after the target. At 15k the error has been between 4 and 6 diagonal FHs in the 180-200mph range. At 5k the error was down to 1 1/2 - 2 FHs. The larger errors in each altitude range DO correspond to the faster speeds. If this is dispersion, then I am satisfied. I am already hitting targets fairly well with visual compensation. I just thought I should mention it.
Anvil

Anvil · « **Reply #13 on:** July 07, 2002, 11:43:38 PM »

SKurj, my game didn't mention CM privs.....It let me right in to FlightModeFlags.

steely07 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 08, 2002, 02:58:47 AM »

HT,some declassified shot's from Vega

"Impact Point Indicator (after careful calibration).
It would seem that an extremely careful calibration would put the IPI right on the crosshairs, but it doesn't."