Author Topic: Gameplay gone fer a ^&%$%$# IMO  (Read 1381 times)

Offline lazs2

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Gameplay gone fer a ^&%$%$# IMO
« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2002, 08:10:09 AM »
No one named oedipus or oed has flown version 1.10   pretty hard to see what kind of "action" you are refering to.  
lazs

Offline Vortex

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Gameplay gone fer a ^&%$%$# IMO
« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2002, 08:11:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by weaselsan


Real men??? This is a game with toy planes. My 12 year old granddaughter has a few kills.


Heheh, well said weaselsan
--)-Vortex----
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Offline laz

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Gameplay gone fer a ^&%$%$# IMO
« Reply #32 on: July 17, 2002, 08:16:03 AM »
I agree skurj, Map is exce.. exc.. Good.... But its not what we need right now.  The old maps were perfect, you could always find a fight.  My favortie, cause i am not a strat dweeb.. heh :D

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2002, 08:18:08 AM »
Hey Lazs!  What are you doing up so early?  You've already mown the lawns for this week ;)

Offline WhiteHawk

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Gameplay gone fer a ^&%$%$# IMO
« Reply #34 on: July 17, 2002, 08:26:21 AM »
ya. im kinda turned off with this map.  but its not really the map,
its the fact that its designed for 300+ players.  So when there
are 300+ players, everything is ok,  but when thee are less than
200, its not very fun.  Less than  100, i cant even find a decent fite
  Lets rotate in some old terrains, or design a new one.  need a
little variety.

Offline popeye

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Gameplay gone fer a ^&%$%$# IMO
« Reply #35 on: July 17, 2002, 08:28:03 AM »
The map sure is ugly, but.....

At peak US hours, I've been able to find any kind of fight I want -- big furball, 5v5 field defense, or 1v2 canyon fight defending a V base.  Just look for the flashing bases, count the red and green dots, and choose your fight.

Off-peak hours might be different.
KONG

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Offline eddiek

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Gameplay gone fer a ^&%$%$# IMO
« Reply #36 on: July 17, 2002, 08:37:18 AM »
From Skurj:
"#1 Maproom moved back to field, town still needs to be flat
(i know this is someone else's suggestion, just don't remember who)

#2 VH placed in or much closer to town

#3 Get rid of this splitting the country for the zones(a country starts as one large mass of zones instead of this strange split)

#4 Smaller map, fewer bases

#5 When we get 1000players... Zone comms to replace(or in addition) chnnl 2
the guys 10 sectors over, fitin for one base don't need to hear calls for help from the whole map. "

Good suggestions, Skurj.  I'd modify them just a tad IMO:
#2 Two VH's, one in town, one in city.  Mannable acks in the cities, like AKCurly said, but make them 88mm, capable of doing AA or AT work.  
Don't agree with #4, but that is just personal preferences.
#5, no opinion.  Have heard some "voices" on country channel that make me think Toonland has gotten wind of AH and has a few subscribers now.......:p
#6 Make all mannable acks AA and AT capable, just like the 5" guns on the fleets. Change the caliber of the guns if needed, but make it where you select your ammo like in the fleet guns, and make the AA shells timed to explode, kinda like the 88's do over the cities and HQ's.  I find it nearly impossible to hit an attacking AC with the mannable guns right now, the trajectory of the shells don't match the "gunsight" at all, IMO.

As to the others who think scanning the map to find a fight that suits them is "work".............:rolleyes:
Do what everyone else has to do, zoom in, left click and SHIFT and drag the map to find what you want, or............holler at your buddies and head to the TA or the DA.  Then you can furrball without having to do anymore than lift off and go guns hot.  All without ever worrying about a fluffer coming over and ruining your fights.
Flame away, the intolerance of people not doing things the way you want them to is STALE........

Offline Halo

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Gameplay gone fer a ^&%$%$# IMO
« Reply #37 on: July 17, 2002, 08:48:09 AM »
The pizza overview was off-putting at first, but its comparatively huge size became irrelevant was a battle site was chosen.  I like the vastly increased options for whatever intensity or type of engagement you want.

In the smaller maps it sometimes was pointless to sign on when your side was down for the count.  You were swarmed wherever you poked your head up.  The pizza usually offers the chance to find whatever odds you want somewhere.

As many point out, the Combat Theater is a terrific alternative.  I got tired of the rolling plane set in WarBirds, but sure enjoyed the more limited realistic options last night in the Malta scenario.

In all 1.10 areas it seems you have to fly a little more to engage, but to me that seems more fun and realistic than fighting before you even gain a thousand feet altitude.  

In the Main Arena, I find myself adjusting the map options more often to better focus on whatever I'm looking for.  At first to find the fights, I turn everything off but the color bars and dots.  That shows the hot spots in a hurry.

And hey, it IS fun sometimes to see what you can do by yourself in a jabo to a fringe vehicle field.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2002, 08:55:25 AM »
yep... the pizza map is good for the CT.

early war planes that are frustrating to use and fights that approch the boredom of the CT.

oedipus..  bieng slughtered and killing a little of four planes per hour is not considered action packed fun fest in my opinion.   you and I differ on what we consider "good fites".

beetle... i was cleaning some handguns.   Oh, those are hand held firearms for you brits.
lazs

Offline eddiek

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Gameplay gone fer a ^&%$%$# IMO
« Reply #39 on: July 17, 2002, 08:56:16 AM »
Shhh.......halo.......careful, they'll be calling you an AI dweeb if they read that!  :rolleyes:
Do what ya want, play the game like you want, fly what you want....others will only try to label ya if you aren't doing what they want or what they like.
Remember, though, it's all good.

Offline Packy

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Re: Gameplay gone fer a ^&%$%$# IMO
« Reply #40 on: July 17, 2002, 09:26:58 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SKurj


Current pizza base layout sucks
Current field/town model sucks for defence
Where I get my fun from AH... gone..
My subscription going going....  i'll give it a coupla sleeps til i get over my anger


SKurj


Skurj,

I would really like to see some official notice from HTC regarding introduction of new maps!!  I have not seen any posts in the "News, Announcements and Info" BBS section regarding new map introduction dates.  I would ask the question here but I don't think any answer would be valid unless it came from HTC.  I plan to start sending one question/day to HTC regarding this map business.  I encourage all others to do the same.

I hope you stick around Skurj.  Your input is important.

Offline hawk220

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Gameplay gone fer a ^&%$%$# IMO
« Reply #41 on: July 17, 2002, 09:37:50 AM »
hitting a moving target is where skill comes in to play:rolleyes:

Offline Kweassa

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Gameplay gone fer a ^&%$%$# IMO
« Reply #42 on: July 17, 2002, 09:57:02 AM »
This map was very nice in trying to  incorporate new factors in to a larger scale, but obviously seem to meet a few problems. This particular layout of a huge map, as people note, is highly favorable for the country who can afford to maintain  the overall numbers concentrated in a certain area. To put it simply, the country with larger numbers are virtually unstoppable in this setting.

 As we've seen in previous maps, concentrated defense makes it difficult for a country with numbers advantage to simply barge through the defense lines. However, in this map, with three islands each separated into three zones, vehicle bases placed on the edge of the map in a continuous circle, and a water path leading into heart of every island, the size of the front has effectively grown 9~10 times of what it used to be.

 It is not the size, or the number of bases that has a problem, but the way they are laid out, IMO. A country with consistently low numbers, (or, a country who cannot afford to maintain large numbers even after prime-time) simply cannot defend when the total length of the front lines are nine to ten times larger than what it was before.

 Of the three separate zones, two are almost instantly lost with the start of a new reset, and the players are confined to a single zone, which is logically the only way people can defend something - by reducing the size of the defensive lines. First, people thought it'd take weeks to get a reset. Now, as it is being proven, about a single day is enough to drive a country into a 'reset phase'. It's a quick and faced pace 'blitz' for the numerous, and a nightmare for the underdogs.

 Now, the maps of the previous versions, even though they had some flaws, had specific strategic value. There was a 'method' to a given map, despite the flaws being that a certain corner of the map was strategically disadvantaged. In those maps, no matter how large a number you had, there was a 'path' for advancing into a certain country, and this 'path' was recognized by players by empirical experience.  There was a logical strategic move - (ie) in Mindanao, the basic strat for the northern country was to defend attacks from west, and advance down the Eastern peninsula to reset the southern country. The southern country knows this too, and they'd set their defenses to protect the peninsula while trying to keep the border lines stable against the Western country. This 'basic strategy' was dictated by many factors including terrain, distance, logistics, and numbers.

 Now, the fields are very close together, VHs spawn vehicles 3~5 miles outside the town in all directions, CVs can move everywhere and spew out planes against almost any field. The factors that made up 'strat' are in effect, mostly neutered now. The only thing that dictates the 'strat' is numbers itself, which also means there IS no strat at all.

 When numbers were low, people could put up defenses in a concentrated area. The 'border lines' would be sealed. It took real effort to break through this. Thus, strat and tactics were made - diversions, NOE raids, tactical furballs phasing into continuous bomber strikes... Both the attacker and the defender would try and devise various ways to overcome the situation.
 
 Now, there is no other way than to 1) hope your country don't get gang banged, and 2) hope your country has same numbers as the other two. You defend one place, they simply circle around  via GVs, CVs, other zones and go for a milk run. It's a bonanza of easy opportunities when you've got a lot of pilots flying for your country; bold enemy defensive in the air? spawn GVs UP THE CANYON within 5 miles of the town and milk run it with zillions of Osties. Enemy defending southern lines? Immigrate to zone 2 and milkrun every base there is.

 .......

 To make a long rambling story short:

1) The size is good, but layout is a real problem
2) Frontlines being too long is the same as 'no frontlines at all'
(Typical Rook situation: "Hi guys! Where is help needed?" ... "We need help everywhere, mate. Oh crap, there goes another base..")
3) GV spawn is too lenient
4) No difficulty in reaching vital areas of enemy country
("Hey, who wants to storm ZoneX master field? We've got the CV parked there. No defenders too!")


 Therefore, what we need is:

1) New layout and designing for the map
(The "all sides equal" concept was very good. What we need to is devise a design that holds the 'equal conditions' and the same time reintroduces the effective 'front' concept that existed before)
2) Reducing size of the frontlines
3) Restricting GV spawns
(How do GVs spawn up a canyon anyway? Promoting ground battles was good, but we need to restrcit GV advance points within a predictable limit)
4) Closing off some 'channels' and 'paths' so people can't just hop to a vital master field or HQ in 'one hop'.

Offline Rude

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Gameplay gone fer a ^&%$%$# IMO
« Reply #43 on: July 17, 2002, 10:03:42 AM »
Quote
So tell me Rude, "real men" are those who fly around an empty world killing AI acks and stealing undefended bases? 'Cuz that's what this map encourages. Or perhaps you mean those oh-so-brave ("brave brave Sir Robin") souls who fly around with 5 of their friends at 30K cherry-picking halpess targets?

If you LIKE that kind of gameplay, then I suppose you wouldn't see a problem with this new huge map. But I don't like it, and I'm not alone in that regard.


Well....I would suggest you lighten up a bit.

That post was made in fun...in other words, not meant to be taken seriously.

I do find it interesting that you take a shot at our squad tho....you believing that we fly around at 30k and cherry pick only tells me that you must have a problem with us....the 13th fights in the dirt, not at high alt. In addition, we find ALL sorts of fights...fuballs, 1v1's, 5v5's...all of which are not inherently bad for gameplay. Variety is a good thing.

If your not having fun, then I'm sorry.....I would not like the sim I fly to suddenly become not fun. Still, many are enjoying themselves and as I've said before, if you had paid attention, HTC will make whatever adjustments to correct what you and others feel are problems with gameplay.

Lazs.....

The difference between you and I seems to be, that although I agree with you in some aspects, until the changes are made to the sim which will allow for what your after, I'm going to make some fun of my own in some way until those changes arrive. To simply decide that this sucks and I won't enjoy it until it's what I want it to be can't possibly be productive, unless you feel that sooner or later HT will capitulate and give you what you want.

I want the sim to grow so that everyone can have fun...that alone is in the best interest of everyone involved, however, until that happens, I've made the choice to enjoy myself, irregardless of what I personally might feel would be best for AH.

I've been drivin spits and f6's lately....never done that before, ever.:)

Hope things work out the way you want them to!


Offline Toad

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Gameplay gone fer a ^&%$%$# IMO
« Reply #44 on: July 17, 2002, 10:09:38 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
rude and toad... I bet your opinion of this map would be a lot different if you had stuck with your "fly P40's for a tour" original idea.   The map is ok for lags and p51's or D9's.  

lazs


Sorry to disappoint. I still fly the P-40 some; probably half the time I'm on.

I'm just not on as much as I was due to my work sked.

I fly the P-40 when my squadmates aren't up or when they're not in fast stuff like P-51's. However, about our only squad rule is that when someone is up, we all fly together. So if somebody's already up in a much faster aircraft I put off my P-40 fix for a while because I simply can't keep up with later aircraft.

However, I have no trouble finding fights and having fun when I'm out droning around in my Warhawk.  

I do so hate to upset everyone, but I seem to have a good time in AH no matter what I fly and no matter when I fly. For this, I am most apologetic. I know you'd all be happier if one more guy was ready to slit his wrist over the dispair caused by the new map. :D

Of course, if I HAD to do something besides fly fighters in AH, that would be a different story. But that's what's great about the game, isn't it? I can loathe GV's, be bored to tears in Buffs and get seasick anytime I try sailing the boats... and I can STILL have a total blast flying fighters in the exact same game where other people are actually ENJOYING doing the things I loathe to do myself.

Go figure.  :D

Cyas at the con.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2002, 10:59:00 AM by Toad »
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!