FW-190 teething prob's

[poppysead]

Now that i've been here a while, and I feel like im at least getting a feel for online play, (dispite my computer recieving only the engine sound after the first 6 minutes of play) and hopefully my quantity of one way sortie's has gone down considerably since my introduction to AH. I have been building skill's in the P-51D and multiple varients of the Spit for a while now, so as kind of a test i've been taking the 190 out for a while now. Ever since I first tried the 190 I was impressed with the sheer volume of shells coming out of the thing. I've even managed to splatter a few guy's on the first pass, but im having big problems trying to fight this thing from a defensive posture. I've developed a couple tricks in the P51 that allow me to force an overshoot in some instances but I cant get that 190 to go virtical the same way. This is compounded by the fact that i've been blasted out of the sky by other 190's that seemingly pull straight up under 200 ias, stall, and blast me while im spining into the ground. I'm dying literaly so here's a list of prob's I got. Mabey some of you 190 driver's could let me in on the tactic's?


1: How do you break contact in a 190? when it gets hot I invariably end up with a 51, or a 47 chasing me down to the deck, blasting me when they catch up.., or more simply how do I force an overshoot in a 190? get the edge, even at higher E state a 51 just follows every move i make in the vertical.

2: How do I get the upperhand when approaching head on with 51, nik, spit etc.?

Unless I have a huge alt advantage nik's and spit's la7 allways put me on the defensive almost emediatly, BandZ works ok but im not perfect so when im at equal speed and alt what do i do?, in 51 I always had an option, run... in 190 I try scissors but get slow lose roll rate and die.....help. I'd hate to give up those guns.

2:

[poppysead]

Oh yah, how far should I be away from a buff when firing the air to air rockets? 1000? 2000?

[senna]

poppysead,

1. Scissors but never do it if you are below 300 IAS. When in a 190 and you fall below 300 your first priority is to get back up past 300 and accelerating. So how you generlly break contact is you do scissors within the 190s perf envelope (300-400) and watch your 6. At some point in the scissors assuming he follows your turns, you dont turn back opposite way and he goes one direction and you another. If he doesnt follow your turns then he will overshoot naturally. If you do it right you are both going opposite ways now. If hes in an La7 or pony he may still catch you in the long run if you are on the deck with no alt left. Never throw your E (altitude) away Alot of guys head stright for the deck to escape. What a waste of E.

2. Approaching those fighters head on co E, you are at a severe disadvantage. Dont turn with any except the P-51 in which case dont go up, especially in an A8.

3. B&Z didnt work and its time to run in your p-51. In a 190A you also run but you run a little sooner thats all. Less tolerance for messing up because you dont have as much getaway speed (D9 is pretty fast though) so you just have to say enough is enough and break off sooner. Its also known as "extending" while you still can.

Hope this helps...

[Seeker]

There's a great deal of difference between the 190's.

The A5 is the dogfighter, the D9 is the hit and run specialist, and the A8 is the heavily armed battering ram.

Which one are you flying?

Also, do a search on this forum for a post by Urchin on "190's for beginners"; it's very informative.

[Kweassa]

Always leave at least 5000~7000 feet of altitude below you - this is your 'bottom limit' if you are flying in a 190 to not only score victories, but return home with it. Leave the deck-alt fights to the belly scratchers.

 When all else fails, the best friend you have is something all pilots must go through no matter what kind aircraft he flies, the ultimate factor that is equal to all - black outs.

 Not too many aircraft can match the roll speed of the 190 in a high speed(380mph+) status, and those few which can match the roll speeds still has to deal with danger of frequent 'tunnel vision'.

 Nose down in a powerful dive, gain speed and start turning until the black out starts to cloud your vision. If the enemy behind you is closing on you, it means he will suffer the black out too.

 At that point, start rolling.. 180 degrees, 270 degrees, 90 degrees, whatever is unexpected for the enemy. 9 times out of 10, the enemy overshoots into some other direction, because even if he can match your roll speed, he does not have adequate vision to spot where you are 'veering off' under the nose. By the time he levels out and spots where you are, you probably would have gained a lot of distance on him. Though the arenas are infested with late war planes, all 190s are reasonably fast planes, and only a handful few planes can catch you after this event has transpired(A-5 can out run Spits and N1K2s after this move, and even planes like the La-7 has to go through a long chase to catch you again. In the case of the D-9, it's virtually untouchable if the enemy is anything short of a Tempest). That is why you need a 'minimum altitude' to fly the 190.

 What I am suggesting is not anything of a fancy move, and it's more of a last resort which works with high probability. I'm sure there are many more things which much better 190 pilots would suggest.

[Naudet]

Yes do a search for Urchins post "A 'primer' for newLW pilots".

It's very good.

But here a few general tips.

All FW190 are E-fighters, that means you usually need an E-Advantage to be able to win a fight.

In a co-E situation the real bad horizontal turning performance of the FW190 is a pain (only A5 is what you can call a "dogfighter"). Cause it will put you either in an angles or an E disadvantage soon after the merge.

In a defensive situation your reaction should be based on the attackers closing speed.

Is he closing fast, a breakturn with some vertikal movement will do very good, especially if you reverse it when the guy tries to line up for the shot.

Is he closing slowy you are in real trouble.
If he is still far away, try to outspeed him. Therefor trade alt for speed and fly to friendly territory. But be aware of LA7 and 109G10s. At some alts they are a bit faster than you, at other alts your a bit faster. Know those altitudes and level at them when you run. On the deck an LA7 will catch you.
Real bad is a Tempest it is about 20mph faster on the deck than you.
If he is within gunrange, your only hope lies more or less in scissoring or jinking. Try to offset his aim and pray. A wingman is the best defense than.

[Hristo]

You can outrun Tempest at 10k in a Dora (20mph or so). But only at 10k.

You can outrun/outduve G-10 below 5k

You can outrun La7 at 8k+.

[Eaglecz]

lol Hristo

so can you kill anything in 190 ?

[bockko]

I have been flying typhs and 51's..got bored and started flying 190-a8 just to play around. In 3 flights I have 10 kills, including an entire 3 bomber flight..lost that plane's tail though:( . I landed one of the three, and my death came in a low furball (3 kills). I hate to say it but I will be flying more a8 missions

[Pei]

I think you can learn a lot flying the 190: you really have to concentrate on matching it's strengths against an oponents weaknesses and planning your moves very carefully.
While not a plane for a newbie once you have got over the whole spit/niki fruball thing and decide you want to get better at the game then it's a good a/c to use to improve your skills.

[HFMudd]

190's that seemingly pull straight up under 200 ias, stall, and blast me

Probably that was a 190A-5 with full aft tanks.  I empty the aft tanks first to move the CG forward, but until the aft tanks are down the A-5 is quite tame and very controlable near the vertical.  If you can catch a P-38 or Nik who has gone vertical it is quite rewarding.

Currently I am working on learning the A-8.  My observations so far is pretty much in line with what you read on this board.  Keep it above 300.  Any manuver that drops you below that is probably going to turn out to have been a fatal mistake.