HTC/Hitech: You helped *them*, now help *us*.

[LePaul]

Originally posted by lazs2

I feel the urge to reciprocate.... I will send you a present also... Toothbrush and toothpaste.... with instructions.   Who knows?  you might even start a fad in britan.
Thanks again.
lazs

OMG...LOL...after seeing some of the Brits with amazingly poor teeth, I've wondered if orthodontists are not allowed in the UK  

[beet1e]

P-Funk!  Now listen to me! It wasn't a three plane mission. There were about 10-12 Bishops from A4 to A1. Most were happy to furball. Of that 10-12, only about three of us were working towards capture. We had hoped that the other 8-9 would cap the field while the 3 jabo guys prepared the field. It would have worked, had it not been for the rooks appearing at great height. But that's what happens when bases are only 5 mins apart, hence my dislike of the gameplay which is engendered by these maps. By the way, Funk, which were the "razor back" P47s? Was that just the -C variant?

Lazs - LOL!

[funkedup]

Of that 10-12, only about three of us were working towards capture. We had hoped that the other 8-9 would cap the field while the 3 jabo guys prepared the field.

That's a 3 plane mission.  Hope is not sufficient.  See my last post, re: other players not playing how you want them to.

Razorbacks are the ones without bubble canopies.

[Wlfgng]

beetle I'm not disagreeing about map size..
in fact the comment is more general in nature and wasn't directed at you specifically:

a way to move forward is:
instead of complaining about maps (for any reason).. provide an alternative.

[X2Lee]

Originally posted by beet1e


So now we’re back to furballing. And gangbangs. And vulchfests. but what’s this I see? A rook N1K – at 25K! > Yeah, yeah, yeah

HTC, don’t take us back to all this crap. Do something! You listened to the 10% of guys who are members of the FWC (Furball Whiner Club without the game handing them our heads on a plate.

Rude! – any chance?

 Warbirds handle was SCRMBL
You will NEVER see me in a N1K

You will NEVER see me in a N1K

I find this highly amusing, your ego is so fragile that your afraid that folks might say your a nik dweeb(one of the best planes in the game) But you have no problem with whining and crying like a little baby with sour milk!
TOO DAMN FUNNY!

X2Lee
AW handle was X2Lee
You will never hear me crying like a sissy!

[CSDMMNT]

Beet1e ... /sigh

CDS - I apologise for quoting you out of context. However, YOU didn't read my post properly! I was not in a bomber, I was in a P47D30. And the N1K was not covering HIS base - he was a rook, capping A1 which was knit. And he did NOT kill me. I barrel rolled, and he had so much speed that he overran me, and pulled up. By the time he could resume the chase, I had extended such that he could not catch me. I guess we should teach him about the scissors!

I did say a bomber run implying bomber plane but didn't mean to, "you were bombing" is where I should of left it at.

The N1K, you got me there, since it was a foe over a base you intended to try to take I did make the assumption (assume I know) that it was defending, it could be argued it WAS defending, depends on who feels who was about to take the field.

I never said you got killed ... by N1K or otherwise. Kudos to you for extending and getting away.

I guess the short of what I'm saying is:

Its not the fault of the map.

The current 1.10.x release has made the strat "more real," regardless of map, and people will have to adjust to it. Others have stated in this thread correctly that if you go JABO you should have fighter support so that N1K (which ever foe it is) or otherwise doesn't deter you from your objective ... or you go in praying you go unoticed.

I love JABO with a P-51D for some reason, tend to do it solo / sneak and then jump into dog fights once ordinance is away. I realize that if I get spotted and the spot reacts to me I may have to drop ordinance prior to objective if I want to survive ... stuff happens, we either adjust or die.

But the biggest for me was: its not the fault of the map.

How could it be?

Quix

[beet1e]

Funked - you're right. I should have called for the usual list: 20 tiffies, 17 LANCs, 5 B17s, 14 Goons, P38s, Spits - and a partridge in a pear tree.  Oh, soooo challenging

X2Lee Fragile ego?  Are you kidding? After going 10 rounds with Lazs in another thread?  LOL!   Nope, you can say what you like   N1Ks and LA7s are nonsense planes

Wlfgang I have provided an alternative! Doh - not someone else who doesn't read my posts? I suggested turning off of bardar and Mission Editor. It's in a thread way back.

LePaul - even though I'm British, I absolutely agree with you. I really noticed it when I came home from America in 1982.

OK, guys. TOMATO is here, and I must retire from my PC for the evening. No AH for me tonight. :D:D

[AKcurly]

I like the idea of map rotation and was delighted to see it re-introduced.  I really hope HTC retires some of 256x256 maps as they bring larger maps online.

When I fly, I ordinarily don't seek furballs, rather I fly in areas that are lightly populated by enemy fighters.  I enjoy fighting 1 vs. 1.

With the 256x256 maps, that's a difficult chore at any time of the day and impossible during the evening (US.)

I'm looking forward to new maps and hope SFMA is the last 256x256 map retired.  I like it!

curly

[funkedup]

Originally posted by beet1e
Funked - you're right. I should have called for the usual list: 20 tiffies, 17 LANCs, 5 B17s, 14 Goons, P38s, Spits - and a partridge in a pear tree.  Oh, soooo challenging

If you want challenge then why are you complaining when your 3 man raid gets bounced by high CAP?  If you want challenge then why do you ask for bigger maps with more easily milk-runnable fields.  At least make up your mind what you want before you ask HTC to change the game.

Let's look at the case you described.  Three jabos and a bunch of friendly fighters in the area.  You complained about getting bounced.  Then you argue that we need bigger maps.

The only way bigger maps will fix the "problem" is by creating lots of undefended fields which your 3 man group can mikrun.  Not only is this gamey and ahistorical, it's not what the vast majority of players are interested in.

And if you aren't on your milkrun map, the only other way to make that mission work is to get those friendly fighters to cover you.  But in your last message you said having an escort package was not challenging enough.

So I don't think you're actually interested in teamwork or historical combat.  You just want everybody to play your way and you want a map that lets you do 3-man milkruns and feel like you accomplished something.  I recommend single player therapy.

[poopster]

Didn't drop in to argue. The Map rotation is a good thing. Each gets alittle of the good and the bad depending on their preference.

Dropped in to say the "fur" between 1 and 4 last night WAS AN ABSOLUTE BLAST

Best hour of flying I've spent this tour. Had all the required ingredients for great "fur". When it all comes together it's...

Nirvana

LOL

[X2Lee]

Originally posted by X2Lee


X2Lee
AW handle was X2Lee
You will never hear me crying like a sissy!

Comment on this sissy boy

[Toad]

Yep. The core group of TAS spent a few very enjoyable hours in the melee between A1 and A4 last night.

We weren't involved in any attempts at base capture, rather we just sort of defended A4 from an ever flowing incoming tide of enemy.

Absolutely first rate fun.

Despite the wailing and gnashing of teeth from our fellow Bish to "get serious" and defend the homeland or the "Bish will get reset!  !!!!!   !!!!!

I'm not a big fan of Ndisles. Never was. Just my opinion, I'm sure others just love it.

If it got reset the WORST thing that would happen to me is that I'd be on a different map. What's the problem again?



Yes...... it IS a GAME. Play it the way YOU want to play it.

[Tumor]

Originally posted by lazs2

I feel the urge to reciprocate.... I will send you a present also... Toothbrush and toothpaste.... with instructions.   Who knows?  you might even start a fad in britan.
Thanks again.
lazs

ROTFL!!!  Thats just WRONG!!  

(...another member of the HiTech Speeling Club?)

[easymo]

The following is an old post by HiTech.  It might help put some of this in focus. BTW. The gameplay concession to the fighter ver bomber relationship, is the reason no one has ever seen me in a bomber. I fly niks all the time.


hitech
Administrator

Registered: Jul 1999
Location: Grapevine TX
Posts: 1618
 Fariz: AH is a Game first and a sim 2nd. The only purpose of having the sim is to make a game.

What everyone is debating is out side of a "REAL LIFE SIM" posiblities. Realism is a very fickle thing. Everyone want's to pick and choose only the pieces of realism they wish to see.

If you step back and look at AH it only tries to capture pieces of what things were like in WWII. Lots of compromises need to and are made for game play. Simple things like auto pilot's,Air field spacing. Releate purly to game play. But it is my belife that most people don't wish to fly with their hand on the stick for 50 hours just to have 1 air engagement.

AH Is now 3 different games in 1. Fighter,bomber,vehicles. Using real life as a method for balancing between these 3 games just isn't a releality. How many times in real life do you think bomber raids were conducted with only 4 planes or less ,let alone 1. It's easy to say that people should fly like real life and form big bomber groups but that just dosn't happen very often. Therefore we are faced with 2 choices.

1. Make the bomber v fighter real life realistic, what this would produce in the end is a lot less bombers flying around.

2. Adjust things on the bomber's so they have a fighting chance. This does make flying a buff fun, and hence puts more of them in the air.

HTC's life would be very simple if all we had to do was make a REAL simulator with out any thoughts of game play.

In the end we have to ask ourselves is it FUN, is it FUN, is it FUN. Everything we choose to implement has to first and formost meet that criteria. This includes implementing components of realism, because it's adds to imersion and hence fun. But if we just add realism with out any thought to fun HTC would not be around long.


HiTech

[beet1e]

P-Funk  The point I'm trying to make is that had it been a fight between Bish(A4) and Knit(A1), then it would have been a fair fight. They could have upped their defensive fighters, rolled GVs to defend the town, and manned the field gun to attack vulchers. Had they got fighters up to any reasonable alt - 5K and up - that would have been a challenge for the jabo as we would have relied on the support of our lite fighters.

But nooooooooooooooooo.... The fields are so damn close together that any reasonable attempt gets jumped! In this case it was by rooks, who held every other base on Gangbang Island at that time. Anyway, Mr. P-Funk, we had this discussion here a while ago.

OK, P-Funk, we are both ex-WBers. And what I'm finding in AH (you may or may not agree) is that the "political orientation" (if I may call it that) is different here. In WB, there were many more Historical Realists. And they could be a pain in the arse. I'm like Lazs in that I don't want WW2 to be recreated, but I don't want an arcade game either. I've read Hitech's statement (kindly attached by easymo), and have a better understanding of the game's objectives. If I may venture an opinion, I would say that these are somewhat different from those of the WB guys I hung around with. We tried to stay alive. We always tried to land missions. I used to enjoy capturing fields when there were only 3-4 of us in the mission as a whole, but that's just me.

The average AH player seems to be rather different. He wants FUN, and only FUN, and doesn't want to work for it - one guy said just that in another thread. Of course, WB had its share of kamikaze pilots and GtG players. But have you noticed how few multi-kill sorties get landed in AH? Maybe a lot of single kill sorties are being landed, but given the numbers in the arena I would have expected many more multi-kill sorties to be landed. I suspect that the vast majority of sorties are not landed, which would seem to suggest an arcade mentality at work.

I emailed you privately about all this some months ago, and you sent back a lengthy reply - remember? As it happens, we had just been winging together that night, or thereabouts.

But if we just add realism with out any thought to fun HTC would not be around long.

Yep, and maybe iEN should read that.

The only changes I want to see in this otherwise excellent GAME (there! I've said it) are these:

• Reduced occurrence of the situation in which fighters are simply waiting for you to arrive - with a 15K alt advantage.
• The ability to capture fields without partridge in a pear tree missions - 5 tiffies, 4 LANCs, 3 B17s, 2 goons, and...