Author Topic: Hurricane vs Zeke?  (Read 381 times)

Offline rv6

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Hurricane vs Zeke?
« on: July 25, 2002, 07:07:45 AM »
Hi All,
Last night, I spent some time in "training" arena after several successful "vulch fests" in the MA.. (good GAWD what fun to be the vulch-ER instead of the vulch-EE for a change ~)

Anyways..  There's this nice fellow in "training" flying a Hurricane (not widely used in the MA).  I flew a Zeke w/ 25% fuel,, and we had at it.

Co-alt, co speed, same-same~  He out-looped me in 5 seconds, and shot me down.:eek:

Next go 'round, he continues to chip away, out-looping me, with these little extension / split-s combos..  Finally we're down on the deck,, LOW & SLOW,, the zekes stall horn a solid "BuzzZZZZZZZ"..

HE STILL OUT-TURNS ME IN A HURRICANE?!  Doing the same little extension, turn-on-a-dime, then deflection nose shoot me!!  Uuugh~

He nailed me 6 times in a row.  I can usually hold my own,, especially on the deck in a zeke. But THIS was unbelievable.

OH! AND FURTHER MORE.. (almost forgot) I finally upp'd in a lite Hurricane too.  You guess'd it. He STILL out-turns me!! :mad:

I bowed at the waist, , and quit, a broken man.

I don't believe in the "cheating"/"hacker" thing in AH,, so what am I missing here?  Hoy Vay..

Any insight appreciated.. (this Hurricane dude has put the fear of Gawd in me!)

Thnx,

RV6

Offline mipoikel

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Hurricane vs Zeke?
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2002, 07:15:16 AM »
Propably auto combat trim off and using manual trim?
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Offline Duedel

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Hurricane vs Zeke?
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2002, 07:17:15 AM »
Flaps? Maybe he uses flaps and u not?
With flaps i cant even turn with a N1K in my 110G2 (not for long but i can turn).

Offline mipoikel

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Hurricane vs Zeke?
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2002, 07:33:14 AM »
Btw what hurri and what zeke? Models?
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Offline rv6

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Hurricane vs Zeke?
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2002, 07:52:12 AM »
He used a Hurricane IID,, I used the A6M5 Zeke,,  I used flaps, no flaps, wheels down, wheels up, rudder skids/slips to off-angle deflection shots on pass-by, hammer-head drop-down stream shots.. yada, yada, yada,,  believe me, I tried every trick I could recall since I was playing AW in the GEnie network days in 1980's!  No dice,, not even close.

(Matter of fact)..  I was in HT's squad back in the AW days (FUBARS).. @ $6 per hr online.

At noon, no one else online but us, we'd duel, me in Zeke, he in that confounded F4U he loved so.

If I could get him on the deck (1 in 20 tries!),, I'd win.  But this little fellow in his Huri last night was unbeatable from any angle, alt, or speed.

Oh well,, back to being the Vulch-EE in MA..
HAAhhahaaa..

Thanks for the replies,

RV6 ~

Offline Czpetr

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Hurricane vs Zeke?
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2002, 08:05:18 AM »
I consider Hurri I/II as one of the best maneuvreable plane in AH. (even Spit can envy ;)) The difference may be in trim use as others stated. Did you use combat trim? Next time try the manual elevator trim to tight your turns.


Quote
Originally posted by Duedel
Flaps? Maybe he uses flaps and u not?
With flaps i cant even turn with a N1K in my 110G2 (not for long but i can turn).


Don`t use flaps in combat in Hurri (or Spit). They have not combat flaps, just landing flaps which slows down the plane too much but doesn`t increase its maneuvreability. Hurri with lowered flaps is like sitting duck waiting to be killed ;-)

czpetr

Offline Widewing

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Hurricane vs Zeke?
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2002, 08:41:43 AM »
Trim on, trim off, and even without any flaps, a Zeke will out-turn a Hurricane. Using flaps in the Hurricane is always a mistake. To deploy flaps, you must get your speed below 160 mph. Don't use them, any pilot with even a glimmer of skill will kill the Hurri in a short second.

What I believe happened is that the guy flying the Hurricane simply managed his E better than RV6. Zekes can turn incredibly tight circles. However, if you get them too slow, you can be beaten by any fighter.

Ultra-slow, super tight turns inherently have a low rate of turn. In other words, degrees per second of turn rate. Moreover, at 500 yards the angles change little, making the Zeke extremely vulnerable to a snap-shot, at which, the Hurricane's Hispanos are extremely dangerous.

Another factor could be pulling excessive G. Nothing leads to losing the advantage faster than blacking out and not being able to track the enemy fighter, who may reverse or go vertical while you cannot see. Situational Awareness goes out the window if you can't see the enemy. Finally, Zekes are very poor rollers at speeds in excess of 300 mph. At high speed, you must maneuver in the vertical. Two reasons for this. 1) It reduces your speed rapidly, allowing you to roll faster. 2) Nothing can follow a Zero in a tight vertical loop. Nothing….

I suspect that RV6 killed his speed to the point that he became an easy snap-shot target for the faster moving Hurricane. He should also stick to a lag pursuit, rather than lead pursuit, as this only works to the Zeke's weakness in roll rate. The Hurricane can reverse much faster, or reverse into a high yo-yo, then drop in for snap-shot. And, if the Zeke pilot is pulling hard enough to blackout, he'll never see it reverse.

Zekes should fight Hurricanes using its vastly superior vertical maneuvering performance. Should the Hurricane try to do likewise, it will bleed E like a pig and become little more than a stationary target. Same tactics will work with the FM-2 and F4F-4, although both are better turners than the Hurricane IIC.

One other point. It is not unusual to encounter highly skilled pilots in the TA out to have a party at the expense of newbies. Make note of the other pilot's name and check their score before becoming too discouraged. You may have been facing an expert. In which case, consider it a valuable ACM lesson, not a beatdown.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline VWE001

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Hurricane vs Zeke?
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2002, 08:52:10 AM »
Down low and slow I routinely outmanuver Zekes... so far this tour I have 61 kills and 20 deaths in the Mk.IIc

Offline rv6

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Hurricane vs Zeke?
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2002, 08:59:16 AM »
Hi Widewing,
Your reply makes perfect sense..  He sure out-rolled me.  What really floored me was the darn loops.  And, I took your suggestion and checked the fellows' MA Score:  He's ranked 328th and I'm at 306th.. so we're probably same/same skill wise.

But, that darn'd Hurricane aye..  Live n' learn. I wonder if it was like this in the real-deal in Pacific Theatre?  Interesting.. will do some reading on it..

Thanks,
RV6 ~

Offline Fatty

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Hurricane vs Zeke?
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2002, 10:10:38 AM »
Lot of pings or a few pings?  It's a close match for the hurri IIc, but if it's the hurri I the zeke better b&z, it can't turn.

Offline DoctorYO

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Hurricane vs Zeke?
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2002, 12:25:45 PM »
DoctorYo's tactics n this fight...


both are merging,  DoctorYo's zeke rolls 90 deg near the merge to give the hurri a nice illusion that im going to turn with him and play fair.  That is not the case as we pass i look and see what he does, if he bites on the fake turn then he is dead( low g immel; out e him and use superior e and turn to send him into the ground.)  If he is smart and immels himeself then i extend and repeat.  If he extends at the merge then i run him down in the zeke with a High speed climb of 1.5k at 275mph.

Note at the top of my immel if he trys to low speed hispo spray and pray then i end my immel with spiral climb. (now he's toast)

No stinking hurri dawg (with its primitive engine) will take my zeke with exception to net lagg or disco....

hurricane is totally outclassed by the zekes engine, which shows how much of a dog the hurricane is.

Under 300mph the zeke is a excellent b&z platform that can energy fight the hell out of the majority of the arena planes.  To bad (or good for the arenas) that no one flys em this way that I know but me.

my 2 cents....


DoctorYO

Offline Wlfgng

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Hurricane vs Zeke?
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2002, 05:19:20 PM »
one possiblity is the use of manual trim to aid elevator deflection.  In the 109 it's almost a necessity.  Not sure about the hurri though.  I don't even have training wheels for it.

Offline whels

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Hurricane vs Zeke?
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2002, 08:44:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DoctorYO
DoctorYo's tactics n this fight...


both are merging,  DoctorYo's zeke rolls 90 deg near the merge to give the hurri a nice illusion that im going to turn with him and play fair.  That is not the case as we pass i look and see what he does, if he bites on the fake turn then he is dead( low g immel; out e him and use superior e and turn to send him into the ground.)  If he is smart and immels himeself then i extend and repeat.  If he extends at the merge then i run him down in the zeke with a High speed climb of 1.5k at 275mph.

Note at the top of my immel if he trys to low speed hispo spray and pray then i end my immel with spiral climb. (now he's toast)

No stinking hurri dawg (with its primitive engine) will take my zeke with exception to net lagg or disco....

hurricane is totally outclassed by the zekes engine, which shows how much of a dog the hurricane is.

Under 300mph the zeke is a excellent b&z platform that can energy fight the hell out of the majority of the arena planes.  To bad (or good for the arenas) that no one flys em this way that I know but me.

my 2 cents....


DoctorYO




Hurri II, isnt my hurric I :), i have yet to be out turned in Hurricane I by the green zeke. havent fought they white 1 yet.

whels

Offline NOD2000

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Hurricane vs Zeke?
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2002, 09:15:12 PM »
i have never been out turned in my hurr I

Offline Widewing

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Hurricane vs Zeke?
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2002, 01:49:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by whels




Hurri II, isnt my hurric I :), i have yet to be out turned in Hurricane I by the green zeke. havent fought they white 1 yet.

whels


The A6M2 turns a lot better than the A6M5, and consequently, will eat the Hurricane I for breakfast, pilots being of equal skill. That damn thing is like a Pitts Special. However, the Hurricane I rolls better and accelerates faster in a dive. Whatever you do, avoid fighting uphill with the white Zeke, its low-speed handling is amazing.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.