Author Topic: Related to airshow crash (Read 416 times)

rogwar · « **on:** July 27, 2002, 11:10:00 AM »

From Reuters an excerpt regarding the SU-27....

"The Russian-built Su-27, whose NATO codename is Flanker, is comparable to the U.S. F-15 Eagle but has a superior performance in many respects."

Oh really?

Nath[BDP] · « **Reply #1 on:** July 27, 2002, 11:51:58 AM »

yup, but it crashes a lot.

midnight Target · « **Reply #2 on:** July 27, 2002, 12:03:25 PM »

There is a German squadron in NATO with the Su27. I watched a special on the training program many American squads go through with these Germans.
The squad was F-18's (Navy I think) and they ended up splitting the dogfights 50-50 with the Su-27s. IMHO this does not speak well of the 27 as an air superiority fighter. The 18 is a jack of all trades and master of none, and still won half the air to air battles. Looks like the 15 would most likely clean its clock.

ZOSO · « **Reply #3 on:** July 27, 2002, 03:04:47 PM »

Are you sure the Germans weren't in Mig-29s?

senna · « **Reply #4 on:** July 27, 2002, 03:32:52 PM »

Its only because the gun in the SU-27s are way undermodleled.

midnight Target · « **Reply #5 on:** July 27, 2002, 03:42:45 PM »

You know ZOSO, now I'm not sure.

Animal · « **Reply #6 on:** July 27, 2002, 04:31:15 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by midnight Target
You know ZOSO, now I'm not sure.

Those are actually Mig-29.

And agree with whoever wrote that. The Su27 is better than the Eagle in performance. I dont know about thrust to weight, but in maneuverability, the Flanker is wicked (maybe thats why it crashes so much

)
Avionics and weapons on the other hand, the Americans own the Russian fighters.

deSelys · « **Reply #7 on:** July 27, 2002, 04:59:35 PM »

I second Animal.

senna · « **Reply #8 on:** July 27, 2002, 05:15:38 PM »

My cousin who was in the AirForce was deployed in Korea on his last deployment (after Bosania, PacRim building WAN networks, then Korea) with an F-15E squadron as an Intel Officer. He says the new E is better than the C with upgraded engines and newer avionics and is actually now the best Air to Air fighter today. Kill just about anything in the sky. (now theres the F-22 though?)

Also said he has flown many times in the back seat, lucky bastad.

I hatim...

john9001 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 27, 2002, 05:43:22 PM »

well i guess the SU-27's superior performance and maneuverability could not keep it from hitting the earth

Maverick · « **Reply #10 on:** July 27, 2002, 06:25:16 PM »

It ain't the plane. It's the pilot. Anyone flying can screw up. The earth is a harsh mistress.

Snowball · « **Reply #11 on:** July 27, 2002, 07:29:49 PM »

how do you compare the F-15E with the C???
for all i know the C is a superioroity fighter and the E is a mud mover...and they are really two different planes...lots of modifications made on the E
...and germany has a MiG-29 wing, i don't think its a Su27

i think U.S pilots are given better training than many other airforces (take gulf war for example 35:0 kill ratio).

but in many aspects teh su27 is superior than many U.S fighters

it can produce manoeuvers such as the cobra and the tail slide which many U.S aircraft can't...but then their pilots have crappy training and not that much mock dogfighters and stuff e.g red falg green flag, fighter weapons school for both the Navy and the airforce

deSelys · « **Reply #12 on:** July 27, 2002, 07:56:10 PM »

And if you think the F-15 is the ultimate fighter, read Sea Harrier over the Falklands (Author, Sharkey Ward. Publisher,
Naval Institute Press. ISBN #, 1557507562).

Sharkey Ward was the Fleet Air Arm commander who operationally tested the Sea Harrier, then led it into battle at the Falklands war. He tells that when the Sea Harrier went operational, they had mock dogfights with different US squadrons (ate least one was flying F15s). The Sea Harrier won everything. Then they met the Aggressor Squadron, whose members can't be labeled as n00bz...Once again, the Sea Harrier won. Sharkey Ward himself lost only 1 engagement against the Aggressor Squadron leader (which pissed him badly because he wanted a clean record).

I agree that the Sea Harrier hasn't evolved as much as the F15 in the last years, but it shows that the Eagle isn't the miracle of fighters.

As someone said, avionics, weapons and training really give the US pilots the edge.

senna · « **Reply #13 on:** July 27, 2002, 10:00:41 PM »

Quote: Usarmy
------------------------------------------------------
I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.
------------------------------------------------------

Thats what he said to me also, hes such a dork sometimes.

When he was talking bout F-15E, he meant in a real encounter where most planes would be snuffed out beyong visual range.

In the case of the Harrier I think those dogfights were all close range scenarios meeting HO then grabbing ass.

I think in modern day AirWar, besides electronics and AWACs and training, an aircraft's sheer brute performance lends alot to survivability (meaning dodging missiles and running). Its offensive capability is purely for the most part in the technology of its weapons systems and intercept CTRL. Then again I dont know much bout this other than playing Falcon4.0 and some reading. Theres alot to modern day air war but I dont think meeting nose to nose not HOing then grabbing bellybutton is very realistic in terms of first shot fired in real combat. In fact HOing with a missile is the prefered method of attack in such an awkward position. All the 1 turn two trun ACM stuff is still taught in the AirForce though of course.

He did mention about a woman pilot he met. Attractive nice looking blonde. The squadron went to Japan for some AA training and in the dogfights, she snuffed the pants out of many, Japanese and US.

LOL

senna · « **Reply #14 on:** July 27, 2002, 10:09:19 PM »

Oh yeah almost forgot. He said the CO of the Japanese F-15 squadron was kilt by her and he was totally astonished when he found out who shot him down in post briefing. oops...