P-38 lightning

[laz]

And just for the record *fart*

[-ammo-]

A real airplane.

[Gator]

Originally posted by akak

It's a P-38L-5-LO because of the fuel pump blisters (J models didn't have them).  You can't see them in the photo I posted but you can find some pictures here

Thanks for the feedback!  Was hoping to get some secrets from you experienced plane spotters, and I always like the stuff you can learn on these boards from other enthusiasts.  

And, thanks for the nifty site!  Good shots, and I also checked it out in D&S vol. 58.  


Captain Owen Fincher's P-38 Lightning, Arkansas Traveler, 392nd Squadron, 367th Fighter Group, 9th AF

[Gator]

Captain Owen Fincher's P-38 Lightning, Arkansas Traveler, 392nd Squadron, 367th Fighter Group, 9th AF

[BUG_EAF322]

I fly the p38 coz all other suck

[Turbot]

Originally posted by akak


Compression and buffeting aren't the same thing.  At least in the P-38 (don't know about other WW2 aircraft), it would only enter a compression in high altitude dives started above 20,000ft and will not enter compression in dives started below that height.

Buffeting can happen at any altitude (those violent shaking of the plane at high speeds) and you still retain some control of the aircraft, even though the controls have stiffened from the buffeting.  Usually just chopping throttle some or even rocking the wings will get you out of a buffet in AH.  I tap on my rudders a little and rock the wings some and cut back my throttle some to get out of a buffet.

 NACA Report 646 Effect of Compression on an airfoil 1939
NACA TN-543 The Compressibility bubble
Compressibility Error
 
Compression in P-38


Ack-Ack
479th FG

Thanks for the links, this is something I wantr to become less ignorant about.

"Flight engineers wanted the test pilots to go past 300 mph above 30,000, which was not normally done. Mattern and Bircham declined to perform the tests because they thought the engineers were being too aggressive. "

"If the P-38 was traveling at 500 mph, the airflow over the wing was approaching the speed of sound"

"This problem created many rumors, especially in the ETO (where combat missions were normally above 20,000 ft., which is where compressibility is encountered)"

"The P-38 would be destined to encounter this problem because of the 1930's style of a thick wing to accommodate the amount of fuel needed. Johnson openly admired the Spitfire's wing design, but as good as it was as a fighter, it did not have the range for long-range escort duties like the P-38. "

"Lockheed designers developed a special kind of flap that would be incorporated into later P-38 designs. Tony LeVier was selected to perform initial testing of this new type of flap. The flaps were supposed to be deployed prior to entering a dive. The flap was not designed to slow the aircraft down, "

It certainly seems like HTC did their homework on this - better than anyone else so far at least in regard to this issue. It has been a long time since I flew AW or WB/WB3 but this effect was not modeled (to my knowledge and experience flying there) IN fact the dive flap behaves totally wrong in those other games as it is indeed very much a brake in both of those sims.

cudo's again to HTC for accuracy in flight model.

[akak]

Originally posted by Turbot



It certainly seems like HTC did their homework on this - better than anyone else so far at least in regard to this issue. It has been a long time since I flew AW or WB/WB3 but this effect was not modeled (to my knowledge and experience flying there) IN fact the dive flap behaves totally wrong in those other games as it is indeed very much a brake in both of those sims.

cudo's again to HTC for accuracy in flight model.
 

It does seem HiTech and gang did a really good job of modeling both compressability and buffet instead of just modeling stick forces like AW did.


Ack-Ack

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Turbot


Thanks for the links, this is something I wantr to become less ignorant about.

"Flight engineers wanted the test pilots to go past 300 mph above 30,000, which was not normally done. Mattern and Bircham declined to perform the tests because they thought the engineers were being too aggressive. "

"If the P-38 was traveling at 500 mph, the airflow over the wing was approaching the speed of sound"

"This problem created many rumors, especially in the ETO (where combat missions were normally above 20,000 ft., which is where compressibility is encountered)"

"The P-38 would be destined to encounter this problem because of the 1930's style of a thick wing to accommodate the amount of fuel needed. Johnson openly admired the Spitfire's wing design, but as good as it was as a fighter, it did not have the range for long-range escort duties like the P-38. "

"Lockheed designers developed a special kind of flap that would be incorporated into later P-38 designs. Tony LeVier was selected to perform initial testing of this new type of flap. The flaps were supposed to be deployed prior to entering a dive. The flap was not designed to slow the aircraft down, "

It certainly seems like HTC did their homework on this - better than anyone else so far at least in regard to this issue. It has been a long time since I flew AW or WB/WB3 but this effect was not modeled (to my knowledge and experience flying there) IN fact the dive flap behaves totally wrong in those other games as it is indeed very much a brake in both of those sims.

cudo's again to HTC for accuracy in flight model.
 

There are a few errors within the piece quoted. Those dive-recovery flaps DID generate drag, which DID slow the aircraft. BTW, Lockheed did not develop the flaps, NACA did. I can recommend other sources should anyone be interested.

My regards,

Widewing

[Turbot]

Originally posted by Widewing


There are a few errors within the piece quoted. Those dive-recovery flaps DID generate drag, which DID slow the aircraft. BTW, Lockheed did not develop the flaps, NACA did. I can recommend other sources should anyone be interested.

My regards,

Widewing

Well of course they generate drag - all flaps do   However that was not their designed function but of course instead a side-effect.


As for that other stuff you should get with the author and straighten him out, I am sure he would appreciate it and he even asks for input:

http://www.p-38online.com/bib.html

According to him:  "Lockheed designers cannot be held accountable for the prolonged compressibility problems. Well known scientists of this time could  not say what the solution was. In addition, the NACA blocked progress for months by not allowing Lockheed to use the wind tunnel at high speeds for fear that the tunnel would be damaged.