Who's given up on buffing?

[Wotan]

Tactical bombers SHOULD be better tools for hitting tactical (i.e. pinpoint targets). What the game needs for buffs is large dispersed targets that are more suitable for buffing than jaboing.

Hooligan

Didja's read that.......

Pretty much sums it up.............

[Sachs]

Don't buff that much now and if I do i dive bomb in the ju88 or a20.  Cant get teh damn thing to work even after folllowing the directions.  I believe either we need bigger strat targets aka cities to hit or have that site ease up some.  Keep the bomb drift the way it is but the site has got to go.

[Oddball-CAF]

Eskimo,
  I used to do bomber hops roughly 70 percent of
the time, but with this new "realistic" (gimme a break) system,
I won't fly 'em at all anymore. If HTC has a way of tracking
the number of buff hops, I'm certain they'll find that the
numbers are considerably lower than in the past. From
what I can see at this point, most of the old hard core
bomber jocks have given up on them as well and are just
doing jabo runs. Most buff runs are done by newbies and/or
dweebs from what I can see, though some seriously
hard core bomber pilots remain.
  The problem with the implementation of this new
system is not so much that "pinpoint" targetting
is no longer an option, but the fact that none of the
damage models for buildings and such were changed
to accomodate the new setup.
  I may be wrong, but I can't see a fighter hanger
which has got to be chock full of all kinds of flammable
and/or explosive stuff requiring 3000 pounds of
ordnance to destroy it. Simple fix would be a
randomizing factor such that 3K wouldn't be
required, nor would direct hits all the time.
  Better yet, let's talk about runways... why are runways
impervious to damage? Hell, what are those 100 pounders
for if not to "crater" runways?
  The arena has deterioriated strategically to a point
where bombers are no longer necessary and a total
waste of time. Basically what we're seeing is:
jabo the city, cap the field and run a bus in and grab
a base. It's boring, repetetive, and basically
relegates AH to just a giant dogfighting arena, as
opposed to a flight sim which has a decent
"strat" system behind it.
  This thing is WAY too basic and time and attention
needs to be allocated to the infrastructure setup of
the arena and how it might be enhanced in cooperation
with a more challenging and creative strategic model.
  This thing's pretty lame as it now stands, with only
fighter sorties affording anyone any real fun.
  Regards, Oddball
Cactus Air Force
(Let the flames begin. You guys ain't gonna get a cherry.)

[Oddball-CAF]

>>>the good guys get the same satisfying "target destroyed" >>>messages... the others, well they complain on the UBB.
-

Hey Wolf, you'd have a lot more credibility in tossin'
those slurs around if you'd flown even ONE bomber hop
this past camp. I didn't bother checkin' beyond this past month,
btw.
  I'm probably the world's worst fighter pilot as far as sims
go, but I could bomb with the best of 'em, and when I had the time, was up at about the 300 mark for "ratings".
I don't consider myself a whiner nor a dweeb when it comes to
buffs, and I can't hit squat in 'em now.
  Do a few hops in 'em and then have your say about
"compalinin' on the UBB". Otherwise, stick to fighters
and keep your smart assed comments to yourself.
  Oddball
Cactus Air Force

[Karnak]

Sure, I've gotten that "object destroyed" message.  Even got 11 of them for one bomb run with Lancs on Bish City.

Not that any bomber mission I've flown has done jack all for the Rook war effort.

As it stands now bombers are useless.  The only reason to fly bombers is to play around with their bombsight.  They are a self contained item as they have no measurable impact on anything else.

It is always better to take a heavy fighter such as a Bf110G-2, F4U-1C, Mosquito Mk VI, P-38L, P-47D-30 or Typhoon Mk Ib than a buff.  Anybody who argues otherwise doesn't know squat about what they're talking about.  Yes, you can hurt a base a little with a well aimed Fort or Lanc formation, but in the same amount of time you will do far, far more for your country's war effort by flying the Jabo fighter.

The crux of the matter is this:

Bombers can now do the about the same amount of damage with a well aimed strike as a single Jabo, but in five times the time.

[Fatty]

Sorry Karnak.  No fighter can approach the damage done by 42,000 lbs of bombs spread from one corner of the field to another, even when someone as bad as me is dropping them.

If I make 14 passes trying to hit a specific target each run, sure, I'm going to be frustrated.  I'll also be bored out of my skull.  This is why I prefer the new version over the old.

[Karnak]

Fatty,

I drop all my bombs in one pass.  I too prefer the new version and think that airfields sould be hard to damage.  There needs to be meaningful strat targets and there simply are none.

I don't disagree that a Lanc formation can do more damage.  It almost certainly won't though.  Furthermore the guy driving the Lancs could have flown four or five 110s, 38s or Mossies to the target in the time it took him to do the Lanc flight.  A single Lanc flight will not out damage that many Jabos.

[Innominate]

Originally posted by Shiva


The problem with the Ar-234 and RATO units is simple to address. The problem is in the way that drone takeoffs and ordnance use is handled.

The rato's fire.  But the drones gain no thrust from them.

Anyone who's using the line of "Learn to use the bombsight, and stop squeaking" obviously has no clue how to bomb.  The bombsight works quite well, it prevents precision bombing.  The PROBLEM is that all of our targets are set up so that an old-style bomber couldnt flatten the whole thing in one pass.  It worked, forcing buffs to make multiple passes over any target to do significant damage.  Now however, it prevents buffs from doing any significant damage.

[lasse]

The post 1.10 bombing is just excelent, only thing is that we need bigger targets, way bigger targets

I dont quit bombing, never will

The Wild Vikings

Commanding Officer
Lasse

[brady]

I play for rank, I admit it I do, I have always played for rank, in every flight sim and war game I have played, I am not as good at some things as I would like, but nontheless I play for rank. Now having said that I will say this, I used to spend a LOT of time bombing stuff( when i played in the MA). Now I do not, I dive bomb, I take a JU 88 or an A20 and dive bomb, less time better acuracery and more effective.

 Ya know the funny thing is this is how it was in real life,dive bombing was more accurate and took less time. Thats why the Germans were nuttz for dive bombers, even the He 177 was able to do shalow angle dive bombing, as well as the AR 234( Hey whears our AR 234 dive bomb sight:) )

[Mark Luper]

much more enjoyable and satisfying than before. Granted, I can't pinpoint bomb anything without at least 2 bombs from each plane in the formation, but do enjoy the carpet bombing aspect of it.

I had trouble hitting my targets until the last patch, that cured it for me. Like someone pointed out, you don't want to have to move lateraly very much once calibrated. I normaly try to calibrate again if not lined up pretty good to begin with.

[Dinger]

A. Guess what, the targets on the map before 1.10 were better suited to Jabo attacks.

B. Those upset at the new bombsight, try this:  Before you calibrate, adjust the throttle downwards.  If you go at full throttle, you'll gradually (for buffs, very gradually) accelerate.  Put the throttle on a constant speed, calibrate, then adjust the throttle to hold that speed for the drop.  If you turn, return to your drop speed immediately.

C.  You can still use buffs effectively, even with the annoying bugs (like the time I had 3 lancs.  ONe engine got hit on number one.  I killed the attacker.  On Lanc #1, the engines slowly quit 3 - 4 - 1 - 2.  Bailed.  On Lanc #2, the engines started to fail, one by one, 3 - 4 - 1 - 2.  Lanc #3, the same thing.
Over 12 minutes, my planes dropped out of the sky thanks to one attakcer.)

Here's some ways:
1. Ackstar
2. Saturation Bombing, AH style.  No, don't use bomber formations to saturate the target.  Use them to saturate the air defenses.  Get a buddy and fly six B17s at 500 AGL over the target.  get int he nose guns and strafe down all the AAA.  Now rev and waste the field at your leisure.

[crowbaby]

I'm not a dedicated bomber pilot by any stretch - but i've practised offline, and done a few runs online with a little success.

I think things will settle down soon, the new bombsight is tough, and wind needs to be factored in somehow, but the learning curve is still much less than for ACM in fighters.

The problem, as many have pointed out, is that our current terrains are set up for precision bombing. I'm working on a CT terrain at the moment (don't hold your breath - i'm crap) where there are far more resource buildings, fields have dozens of fuel tanks, several hehicle hangers, etc. The idea here is that it will take area bombing to knock out either strat targets or a field. Targets will be crowded together as in real life, not dotted about. There will also be clumps of low level AA.
Jabo pilots will moan - they'll no longer be able to take out a field, or do meaningful damage to a strat target - but it will be more 'realistic'. Jabos will still be great for taking out pin point targets left over by the bombers, or acks that pop up again, or gv's (particularly if gv's get a little tougher - requiring bombs not 50 cals)
I'm also increasing the distance between fields a little. Jabos are vunerable while heavy, and if the 'low dash' is made longer, people might be more inclined to take a bomber high.
The idea is not to punish Jabos, but to separate the roles of Bomber/Jabo/Interceptor/Escort more, so that each has a place.

Perhaps bomb damage, blast radius, etc. need addressing for this to work? At the moment the likes of a p38 (admittedly late war) with 2 1,000lbers, rockets, cannon and 50cal can probably do as much damge as a fully loaded Lanc. It would also be nice if bombs could crater a runway - the problem with this at the moment is that you would die if you spawned in a crater - with no way of knowing it was there. Perhaps spawn points could be bombable to represent an unusably cratered runway?

just my 2c - I like what AH have done with the bombers and have every faith that any real (not perceived) issues will be ironed out.

[AKSWulfe]

Hey Wolf, you'd have a lot more credibility in tossin'
those slurs around if you'd flown even ONE bomber hop
this past camp. I didn't bother checkin' beyond this past month,
btw.

Right.... you gotta fly online because offline those targets are like, well, hmmm.... no, actually you can practice bombing offline and it'll be the same. BTW, a slur would be something like you are a fluffing dweeb... not what I said.

I'm probably the world's worst fighter pilot as far as sims
go, but I could bomb with the best of 'em, and when I had the time, was up at about the 300 mark for "ratings".
I don't consider myself a whiner nor a dweeb when it comes to
buffs, and I can't hit squat in 'em now.

Congratulations, I flew bombers before... first time up I could hit whatever I wanted to but just salvoing a bomb or 3, reducing throttle and drop on target with pin point accuracy from 30K. Easy mode? Very much so. Now it takes a bit of mastering the technique, and everyone who thought they were good because they could drop anything by a mere point and click, are on the UBB complaining.

Do a few hops in 'em and then have your say about
"compalinin' on the UBB". Otherwise, stick to fighters
and keep your smart assed comments to yourself.
[/QUOTE]

Right, I again refer you to practicing offline if you are having so much trouble online. You might actually learn something.
-SW

[kidcol]

Shiva, a method for getting 234's up that I found (a lot like yours):

Start the buff rolling same as usual, but drop throttle after rolling 50 feet or so & wait for the drones to start rolling. Once they do & start closing behind you, jam throttle back to full. They'll be much closer when you do hit the rato's. And, as should be clearly evident, you don't want to do this with auto-take-off. Stay fairly level & after rato's drop, chop throttle back to 75-80%, give the drones time to get in close behind you before going full & climbing.

Sometime I'll share my method for getting a C47 off a carrier . Yet another stupid gamey thing learned offline when I was bored, hehe.

kid