Author Topic: Training Arena? (Read 515 times)

Apache · « **on:** April 24, 2000, 01:05:00 PM »

We need to get a handle on this training arena problem. ( If one does exist, I don't go there ). Obviously there is a problem, or a perceived one. Reference this post, http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum2/HTML/000201.html .
Obviously we have a disgruntled individual who could possibly discourage new players. I for one want to see Aces High continue to grow. Without a consistent player base, that won't happen long.

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Apache
Renegade Nation
"Abandon All Hope"

Kieren · « **Reply #1 on:** April 24, 2000, 02:07:00 PM »

I stated this in another related thread:

Quote

As for the Training Arena- yes there are problems. There has been quite a bit of discussion on the topic the last few days. Both sides have presented very compelling points. But, as in any argument, the truth probably lies in the middle. There needs to be a place where players can go for melee matches (perhaps H2H, SEA, or an arena separate from the existing ones). There needs to be a safe environment where new flyers are introduced to the game.

This last point is where we trainers have failed. We have not been able to control the atmosphere as we possibly should. I think we have all been sincere in our efforts, but the end result is the same. The best bet for a new person in the Training Arena is to set up a specific time with a trainer. Let the trainer take you to a remote base and help you there. The last thing a new guy needs to do is to pop into a base full of people flying overhead, because the new guy is going to get shot on the runway. To be fair to us (trainers) we are not there all the time, and the community needs to be able to police itself, too. I don't have "the" answer to this problem; if I did, you would have heard about it before now. All I am fearful of is that if we collectively can't find some way to make it work, we will lose it altogether. No one wins that way.

In that vein, let's put the fueds aside and try to find a way we can correct the problem together. I'm pointing the accusing finger back at myself and asking "What can I do to improve the situation?"

Saintaw · « **Reply #2 on:** April 24, 2000, 03:10:00 PM »

Kieren....did U ever think about going into politics ?

You have my vote !

Apache · « **Reply #3 on:** April 24, 2000, 03:16:00 PM »

But Kieren said exactly what needed to be said. We, the community of Aces High, need to address this problem as it now exists until HTC, as I understand, gives trainers admin. rights in the TA.
Salute Kieren for taking a leadership roll!

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Apache
Renegade Nation
"Abandon All Hope"

humble · « **Reply #4 on:** April 24, 2000, 03:41:00 PM »

The last thing that any of us want is to damage/retard the growth of this game..er ..addiction. The strength of this sim has been the strength of community. I won't recap all my various posts here, but would like to restate a simple plea.

Training includes a lot more than flying, 99% of the time a little conversation quickly clears the air. I believe 90% of the people in the TA have a positive experience there.

Lets work on the 10% problem...not hose the 90% solution.

Kieren · « **Reply #5 on:** April 24, 2000, 03:46:00 PM »

Correct, and to clarify, we trainers have been discussing this on the trainer forum. We realize we have a problem and we are working for a solution. Still, it feels good that there is community concern and a desire for a solution.

I am not the leader (in fact, it took Sharky to slap me around a bit to see some things).

I know we all (community) will get it right.

Ghosth · « **Reply #6 on:** April 24, 2000, 11:13:00 PM »

WTG kieren!

Frankly I don't spend much time there because of the attitude. If I want to get vulched on the runway I can get plenty of that in main.

What happened to the concept of a "Fair" fight? Where both opponants meet at the same alt with a straight cold guns merge?

I understand the desire for perfecting advanced ACM, but it needs to be in a controled envoirment.

Last thought, just because your in the majority, doesn't neccesarily make you right.

Nash · « **Reply #7 on:** April 25, 2000, 02:03:00 AM »

You're doing it again Ghosth. Like I've said on those heated etiquette threads in the Help and Training forum, this so called "attitude" is so hardly present in the TA as to be irrelevant. You state yourself that you do not frequent the TA, so excuse me by going out on a limb here and suggesting that you don't exactly qualify as speaking from experience on this.

There's also a heckuhvalotta confusion which is just not, whats the word... neccessary. I guess. For example, you ask "What happened to the concept of a "Fair" fight? Where both opponants meet at the same alt with a straight cold guns merge?"

What happened to them? Erhm... They *still* go on. What is stopping two people from deciding to up at any of the 64 available fields (only one of which is a FFA field) and going at it? Indeed, I see people doing this all the time.

I've stated this case over on the other forum, but I feel the need to restate it here, as this kinda thing is gonna get seen by allot more people - and I'd hate for the TA to get tarnished unfairly any more than it already is.

And the instructors have been taking a beating as well, which is complete BS.

If anyone needs help - do NOT buy into this incendiary crap. Go to the TA. The instructors there (Kieren, humble, Funked to name a few) do a *remarkable* job there. In fact, I can't recall a time when an instructor wasn't present and willing to voluntarily give up his time to help out.

Someone will say "I need help". Right away an instructor whisks him off to another field, and there they train. Two other people decide to duel, and whammo they're off to another field to go at it.

What's the problem?

The TA is an invaluable part of Aces High. Lets not stink it up any more than it has been with the last couple of days of ranting by one or two malcontents. Frankly, I'm suprised that some of you older folk are buying into this nonsense.

sourkraut · « **Reply #8 on:** April 25, 2000, 08:54:00 AM »

One or two malcontents? What a load of crap!
I started the original posting on training etiquette to discuss what has happened to me and to find out what the etiquette was - and, with the exception of kiernan, no one has stepped up to address this issue - especially hitechcreations (are you out there?) And yes, I have been back and it is not necessarily improving.

This is the first post I've had where I am starting to boil, I avoided this type of thing in the past to stay out of flame wars... but.

Sour

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Sourkraut
JG-2 Richthofen

"Hey - someone has to be the target...."

Nash · « **Reply #9 on:** April 25, 2000, 09:08:00 AM »

Wasn't talking about you sourkraut. Yes, you have a legitimate concern, but that thread quickly degenerated into a completely overblown, out of context rant, which, no matter what yer experience, is NOT typical there. I'm worried about the impression this is giving to the newer AH flyers who may decide to avoid the TA because of it.

[This message has been edited by Nash (edited 04-25-2000).]

indian · « **Reply #10 on:** April 25, 2000, 09:14:00 AM »

HTC has looked at the problems they just dont post answer to evrything. They will come up with a fix for this problem.

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Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
1st Aces High Trainer Corps.
Home of The Allied Fighter Wing A.F.W.
A.F.W. Homepage

Nash · « **Reply #11 on:** April 25, 2000, 09:26:00 AM »

There you have it

To be fair, sourkraut, you were immediately answered by 4 trainers and an HTC admin. It's what the thread devolved into that I'm talking about. Here's a 5th trainer, Indian, saying that these things are being addressed.

Citabria · « **Reply #12 on:** April 25, 2000, 09:26:00 AM »

I love the TA the way it is.

I enjoy getting shot down, I only get vulched when someone is saying hello so i enjoy that too, I get back to the fight in 20 seconds, the TA has a different atmosphere than the MA. a much less frustrating atmosphere for sure.

no ones afraid to try a new trick, no one runs from a fight, dying means nothing with action so close and its in the spirit of learning, improvement and fun.

I love the duels against Av8r, nash, daddog, and all who enjoy the much more cheerful interaction the TA provides at the free for all field.

I have seen countless times a more experienced player gladly helping a new guy learn the ropes, questions get answered over the radio by mulltiple people in seconds.

I see these irrational condescending posts from names I never see in the TA who try it once and get vulched by a newbie who knows no better.

that and in the TA the newbie is gonna learn a lot more about flying the airplane without having to fly for 20 min to altitude then cruise around to find a fight, get bounced die, repeat. personally I never heard of anyone learning from the autopliot.

the key is to get in there and mix it up with all you got. see what tricks work for you and which do not. what planes do what? what tactics are best for this or that?

its not a formal lead by the hand at the free for all field but its just as good as going off with a trainer to practice 1 v 1 which... honestly is purely acedemic when talking about the main arena where 1 v 1 fights are the exception not the rule.

it seems some don't understand that in Aces High like real life flying, you are always learning somthing new no matter how much experience you have. In the MA you learn situational awareness and all that goes with the numbers game, then you get shot down or auger into the ground 3 times in row after a half hour long flight when you are mixing it up hard and dogfighting as best you can, get frustrated go to the TA and get right to the dogfight part where you had trouble and have a good time of it.

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"There are no born fighter pilots. Some are a little better than others, thats about it. But I would say time, training, training, training and more training are the key... to any success." -Francis Gabreski

Citabria
=357th Pony Express=

[This message has been edited by Citabria (edited 04-25-2000).]

YourDead · « **Reply #13 on:** April 25, 2000, 09:33:00 AM »

The training arena is really helpful. Some people are willing to tell u what u do wrong when u engage them and how to overcome ur shortcomings.

Its a great addition.

Pongo · « **Reply #14 on:** April 25, 2000, 09:38:00 AM »

Why when I was a young pilot we had it real tough...
No TA...No trainers....No FW...
The most training I recieved in AH was Hristo saying "Next time fly it like a 109" after he shot me down on day 2.
Course we had unlimited WEP, and you could drop gear at any speed. We were really hoping for guns on the b17 some day...
I realise this has no relavence at all to the discussion except to point out to some of the newer people that this game evolves into what you want right befor your eyes..
State your concerns, offer some sugestions, critique others sugestions, and sit back and watch the magic...
I am sure that the only problem that HTC is having with this one is which of the many easy ways that they could improve on the problem do they choose.
Sounds like the trainers are earning their keep, <S> guys!

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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew