An Axis heavy bomber is needed in Aces High

[Heinkel]

For bomber we would need bombers for the 2 major countrys who have no heavy bomber currently: Germany and Russia.  So He177 and Tu2 would be great

For fighters, I think

1: Ki-84
2: Somthing Italian, R2005 would be nice
3: 1-16 or 1-153, all the VVS planes now are late war monsters, give them somthing crapy
4: Me 410
5: Ki44

6: More 109's!!!!! we have too few

[Karnak]

Heinkel,

Last I checked Japan was a major contry and lacked a heavy bomber.

[AdmRose]

Guys, if you need a heavy bomber for Japan, well (if you don't mind trying something that was designed but never built) look at the Fugaku:

According to Francillon's "Japanese Aircraft" the Nakajima G10N1 Fugaku  (Mount Fuji) was a 6 engine bomber designed to hit US mainland targets from Japan. Designed to cruise at 32,000 feet with a top speed of 423 mph. 4 20mm defensive guns. Short range bomb load is 44,000 lbs. Bomb load for US mainland attacks projected to be 11,000 lb. Wingspan is 206 feet with a
length of 131. None were built.

It looks remarkably like a six engine B-29. But it is really in the same class as the B-36 in regards to the range and bomb load.

The Fugaku was a bomber designed to bomb the U.S. from Japan, however, it didn't get beyond the design stage, and the plans for this bomber were cancelled in July 1944 because it was deemed impossible to build at the time. The plane was supposed to have had six 36 cylinder air-cooled, supercharged engines generating 5,000 hp each. It was also supposed to have a pressurized cabin. Because of the early cancellation of the project, I don't think that any other data are available.

Considering the B-29 project actually cost more than the Manhatten Project, and then considering the resources involved, it would have been extremely difficult for Japan to produce the heavy bomber, in any significant numbers....even the original design of six 5,000 hp engines was scaled back to six 2,500hp engines.

TECHNICAL DATA

Description: Six-engined land-based bomber.

Powerplant: Six 2,500 hp Nakajima NK11A air-cooled radials

Armament: Four 20 mm cannon.

Bomb-load:  20,000 kg (44,000 lbs) for short-range sorties;  
                    5,000 kg (11,000 lbs) for sorties against targets in the US.  

G10N1  
Dimensions:  
Span  63.00 m (207.9 feet)
Length  40.00 m (132 feet)
Weights:  
Loaded  160,000 kg (352,000 lbs)
Performance:  
Maximum speed  680 km/h (421.6 MPH)
Service ceiling  in excess of 10,000 m (33,000 ft)

I put a LOT of research into this...so please give it some consideration.

[AdmRose]

Another pic of the Fugaku, anyone read Japanese?

[Mitsu]

Fugaku was only planned in the closing days of the war.

It is unreasonable bomber for Japan.

Forget it.

[Innominate]

Cool plane admrose,
But, like the bearcat, and so many other cool planes, it never saw combat, and hence doesnt belong.

[Soviet]

well japan already has a decent unperked bomber,  Germany doesn't even have a decent uperked bomber (the Ar234 sucks bellybutton now too)

[AdmRose]

I mean a perked bomber, maybe 150+ points...and I think the JU88 is a decent bomber for Germany.

[Glasses]

Yes the Ju88A4 is indeed  a very decent German bomber,very decent if we were fighting  a 1941 scenario. But in the late war scenario of the MA the German plane set lacks a formidable late war bomber that can compete and has adequate defence. A plane like the He177 would be the perfect plane to fill this gap I'm all up for it.

Yet the thought of  of the Ju88A4 being adequate is completely ludicrous Adm Rose, is it because it fills the thought of the common German bomber plane being completely defenseless or that the Germans did not launch or commit large ammount of bomber sorties after 1942? It would most certainly give an alternative to the constant waves of Lancs, B17s , or B26s that constantly we see in the MA and no other sim, if I recall, has modeled the 177 for online play.

Oh and of course it would not be perk material.

[AdmRose]

Originally posted by Glasses
Yet the thought of  of the Ju88A4 being adequate is completely ludicrous Adm Rose, is it because it fills the thought of the common German bomber plane being completely defenseless or that the Germans did not launch or commit large ammount of bomber sorties after 1942?

It fills that thought cause the Ju-88 was the common German bomber:

The RLM (German air ministry) issued a requirement for a Schnellbomber (fast bomber) in 1935. This led to the Junkers Ju 88, destined to be produced in greater numbers than all other German bombers combined. Total production reached 14,780 including 104 prototypes.

The He 177, however:

The Greif bombers, originally intended to provide the Luftwaffe with a strategic bombing force, encountered so many development problems that they only entered service in quantity during the last 18 months of the war. About 1,160 production and 30 prototype He 177s were built.

I think the Do-217M would be a better choice:

Dornier Do 217 M
4 crew medium/heavy bomber
Engines: Do 217M Two 1750 hp (1305kW) Daimler-Benz DB603A inverted V12s
Wingspan: 62 ft 4 in (19.00m )  
Length: 55 ft 9.25 in (17.00m )
Height: 16 ft 4 in (4.98m )
Empty Weight: 19,985 lb (9065 kg )
Max Overloaded weight: 36,817 lb (16700 kg )
Armament:four 7.92mm and two 13mm machine guns.
Max bombload 8,818 lb (4000 kg)  
Max Speed: 348 mph (560 km/h ) - for Do 217M-1 at 18,700 ft (5700m)
Max speed at sea level: 294 mph (473 km/h )
Cruise Speed: 248 mph (399 km/h )
Initial Climb Rate: 690 ft/min (210 m/min )
Service ceiling: 24,170 ft (7367 m )
Range: 1,335 - 1,550 miles (2148 - 2495 km )

Just a suggestion.

[Karnak]

Ju88A-4 is just as good as the Ki-67.

Ki-67 is faster and better armed, but carries less than a Mosquito in ordanance.  Less than 2,000lbs.

The Ju88A-4 carries about 5,000lbs, but is poorly defended and not overly fast.  Neither one is terribly useful as a bomber in the MA.

The Ar234 isn't very useful as a bomber either.

If the He177A-5 can indeed carry 13,000lbs of bombs, as people are once again claiming, I would have to argue against it.  Any bomber that is clearly better overall than the existing bombers should not be introduced as a free aircraft.

If the He177A-5 could carry 13,000lbs of bombs, then I would suggest the Ju188A-2 as a new German bomber.  It is faster than any bomber save the Ki-67, reasonably well armed and can carry 6,000lbs of bombs.  The Ju188A-2 would do quite well and not need to be perked.

[RRAM]

Originally posted by Karnak
If the He177A-5 can indeed carry 13,000lbs of bombs, as people are once again claiming, I would have to argue against it. Any bomber that is clearly better overall than the existing bombers should not be introduced as a free aircraft.

aye...

PERK THE LANCASTER!!!! that 14000lbs-carrying monster

[Mitsu]

Let me use H8K Emily as Japanese B-17.

[Karnak]

RAM,

The Lancaster is slower, climbs worse and is much, much poorer in the defense department.

Currently you have a choice of taking a large payload (Lancaster) or good defensive firepower (B-17G).  The He177A-5 would have nearly the payload of the Lancaster, decent defensive fire and be faster than either the B-17 or Lancaster.  It ends the choice.  Instead of choosing firepower or payload you just take an He177A-5 and get both.

Now, if the He177A-5 could carry 13,000lbs of bombs in the same way as the Lancaster techincally carried 22,000lbs and the B-17G technically carried 16,000lbs I don't think it'd be an issue.  You will note that neither big bomber in AH actually has its maximum load as an option.

So, if the He177A-5 were to have a normal payload in the 6,000-10,000lb range, I don't see why there'd be a problem.


Mitsu,

Yes, the H8K2 is well balanced.  It climbs better than either, has a bombload that is limited and has defensive fire that is a little less effective than the B-17G's.

[Dr Zhivago]

Do217 M-1 carried two Mg131 (dorsal turret/ventral gondola), four MG81 at cockpit sides and one MG81 Z at nose.

Note Do217s top speed vs. other LW bombers...

Do217 M-1 - 348 mph (557km/h) at 18,700ft (5700m)
Ju188 A-2 - 325 mph (523km/h) at 20,500ft (6250m)
He177 A-5 - 304 mph (490km/h) at 19,685ft (6000m)
Ju88 A-4 - 286 mph (461km/h) at 16,000ft (4876m)
He111 H - 270 mph (435km/h) at 19,685ft (6000m)
Do17 Z - 265 mph (427km/h) at 16,400ft (4998m)
Fw200 - 224 mph (360km/h) at 15,400ft (4694m)