Author Topic: Macchi C.202 and C.205 data (Read 2466 times)

gatt · « **on:** August 02, 2002, 03:45:27 AM »

After some researches (from both AH and WB 4°Stormo Caccia), here are some real test data about two C.202s and two C.205s models. They come from original documents of Ing.Castoldi, the Macchi designer, and have been confirmed to us by an engineer from AerMacchi company as well. You can get them from some old publications (Profile n°28 "The Macchi C.202" - Profile Publications UK, and old issues of AEROFAN magazine). So far, they are the only data available.

Please take note that:

- the C.205 performance data are from two a/c armed with 2x7,7mm + 2x12,7mm. The cannon armed C.205, with an estimated t/o weight of 3,408Kg, was probably never tested (written words from Castoldi himself);
- both the C.205s have been tested with a maximum power setting of 2.600rpm and 1.3ATA (so Daimler-Benz allowed up to late 1943);
- real life tests can differ a lot even with the same a/c.

Aer Macchi C.202
(prototype test)
Serial Number MM545
T/O Weight (lbs) 6.206
Armament: 2x12,7mm

Max Speeds:
Altitude TAS
Sea Level 305mph
3,280ft 319mph
6,560ft 334mph
9,840ft 349mph
13,120ft 362mph
16,405ft 372mph
19,685ft 362mph

Time to climb:
Altitude Time
3,280ft 0'34"
6,560ft 1'19"
9,840ft 2'26"
13,120ft 3'27"
16,405ft 4'40"
19,685ft 6'13"

Aer Macchi C.202
(official acceptance test)
Serial Number MM9486
T/O Weight (lbs) 6.475
Armament: probably 2x12,7mm

Max Speeds:
Altitude TAS
Sea Level 308mph
3,280ft 320mph
6,560ft 332mph
9,840ft 343mph
13,120ft 354mph
16,405ft 363mph
19,685ft 367mph

Time to climb:
Altitude Time
3,280ft 0'52"
6,560ft 1'48"
9,840ft 2'47"
13,120ft 3'49"
16,405ft 4'57"
19,685ft 6'26"

Aer Macchi C.205
(DB605 engined C.202, very similar to production C.205s)
Serial Number MM9487
T/O Weight (Kg) 3.224
Max allowed rpm 2.600
Max allowed ATA 1,3
Wing guns 2x7,7mm
Nose guns 2x12,7mm

Max Speeds:
Altitude TAS
Sea Level n/a
1.000mt n/a
2.000mt 550Km/h
3.000mt 566Km/h
4.000mt 581Km/h
5.000mt 585Km/h
6.000mt 595Km/h
7.000mt 626Km/h (up to 651Km/h and 658Km/h)
8.000mt 646Km/h

Time to climb:
Altitude Time
1.000mt 0'39"
2.000mt 1'15"
3.000mt 2'04"
4.000mt 2'54"
5.000mt 3'54"
6.000mt 5'03"
7.000mt 6'16"
8.000mt 7'45"

Aer Macchi C.205
(production a/c)
Fiat engine number 47962
T/O Weight (Kg) 3.268
Max allowed rpm 2.600
Max allowed ATA 1,3
Wing guns 2x7,7mm
Nose guns 2x12,7mm

Max Speeds:
Altitude TAS
Sea Level n/a
1.000mt n/a
2.000mt n/a
3.000mt n/a
4.000mt n/a
5.000mt 608Km/h
6.000mt 631Km/h
7.000mt 641Km/h
8.000mt 639Km/h

Time to climb:
Altitude Time
1.000mt 0'41"
2.000mt 1'37"
3.000mt 2'37"
4.000mt 3'44"
5.000mt 4'48"
6.000mt 5'51"
7.000mt 7'01"
8.000mt 9'18"

gatt · « **Reply #1 on:** August 02, 2002, 04:01:52 AM »

deleted

brady · « **Reply #2 on:** August 02, 2002, 04:28:43 AM »

Gatt, what does all this mean, excuse my ignorance please.

I fly the 205 more than any other plane, so anything that would efect it's AH preformance is very important to me.

gatt · « **Reply #3 on:** August 02, 2002, 04:44:19 AM »

Brady, dear mate,
I mean that the only "official docs" available to us so far, ie:

- the Macchi C.205V Manual, printed in Italy and available in Italian libraries reports only the max speed at about 7K and some weight data, many of them wrongs. Actually the manual has been modified, but only God knows who did it;
- other recent publications lack C.205 performance data (PYRO has the above mentioned manual, or part of it, and the Terlizzi booklet;
- we, AH and WB 4°Stormo squads, digged all we could at AerMacchi, at AerMacchi emplyees and some old stuff published;
- we found that Ing.Castoldi wrote down some precious, although limited, hard data.
- we discovered them at AerMacchi and in those old issues I mentioned above.

Interesting that the C.205V performance was measured only with 2x7,7mm + 2x12,7mm variants and that probably no cannon armed variants were ever tested. Same thing for the max power allowed (the same of the Finnish 109G-2, with similar t/o weight).

Said that, I've prepared an ugly (

) Excel spreadsheet with max speeds and time/to data. Now, how can I convert an Excel spreadsheet in a doc postable here in the BBS?

Brady, as you can see many considerations could be done considering the above data. Not only considering that those times and speeds were attained using some 200hp less than the 1,475hp allowed by the DB605.

These data should only help HTC to understand better the Macchis Fligh Model. And to maybe improve or change it in the future, if they want to.

The most important thing is that those are the first reliable data about Macchis fighters with reliable sources as well. Obviously you should make an average of all those data to build a well balanced flight model (and correct them for the cannon armed version).

straffo · « **Reply #4 on:** August 02, 2002, 05:13:00 AM »

why don't you just attach the excel file ?

Staga · « **Reply #5 on:** August 02, 2002, 05:13:17 AM »

Gatt you could always zip that chart and attach it to your post (max 100k, if it's bigger post it to me and I'll put in on the server).

gatt · « **Reply #6 on:** August 02, 2002, 05:23:50 AM »

Ok reposted data in first post, not very good looking but better than nothing.

straffo · « **Reply #7 on:** August 02, 2002, 05:29:10 AM »

I've near no knowledge of the macchi planes (and quite the same for a lot of others planes

)

does it mean the AH 205/202 should see her performance improved or not ?

Mitsu · « **Reply #8 on:** August 02, 2002, 05:37:20 AM »

My source shows C202AS/CB performance as follows...

498km/h/SL
521km/h/1,000m
544km/h/2,000m
566km/h/3,000m
586km/h/4,000m
596km/h/5,000m
599km/h/5,600m

0'39"/1,000m
1'28"/2,000m
2'28"/3,000m
3'32"/4,000m
4'04"/5,000m
5'55"/6,000m

in mph/feet...

309.4mph/h/SL
323.7mph/3,280ft
338.0mph/6,561ft
351.6mph/9,842ft
364.1mph/13,123ft
370.3mph/16,404ft
372.2mph/18,372ft

0'39"/3,280ft
1'28"/6,561ft
2'28"/9,842ft
3'32"/13,123ft
4'04"/16,404ft
5'55"/19,685ft

Mitsu · « **Reply #9 on:** August 02, 2002, 05:45:27 AM »

I dont know which C202 version (AS or CB) this data shows tho.

gatt · « **Reply #10 on:** August 02, 2002, 06:32:28 AM »

Mitsu,
your data refer to the very well known "Technical Manual C.A.670/1, Series IV-VIII", from the AirMinistry. Many sources define those data not enuff reliable and like many manuals (look at those for the 190A-8) we dont know what a/c (serial number) and with which configuration was tested. What we were looking for were hard data, coming from real tests.
I hope PYRO will find those hard data interesting and useful to fine tune the Macchi's FM.

brady · « **Reply #11 on:** August 02, 2002, 06:07:15 PM »

I thank you for your posting gatt and all the hard work that must of gone into it, I personaly own the folling manuals:

Istruzioni e Norme

per il montaggio

la regolazione

e la manutenzione

del velivolo

Aer. Macchi C.205V

And

Aer. Macchi C. 202

And

Aer. Macchi C.200

I obtained these from a very generious and forever appricated Elicoio Bravin, ty sir.

So Gatt is safe to say that info I have on the C. 200 is is question as well?

gatt · « **Reply #12 on:** August 03, 2002, 12:15:36 PM »

Brady, the C.200 and C.202 manuals you have are good. Too bad the C.205s one has no performance data. Actually, the 2x20mm cannon armed 205 was probably never ever tested. The only official tests have been performed by prototypes or 7,7mm (wing) armed 205s.