Stick Scaling vs the new "Stall Limiter"

[De OL OLtos]

OK,

A while back I discoverd that in AH you cannot scale the stick at 100% of throw.  I emailed tech support and was told, (I kid you not), that this was a feature.  

Now I see that there is a "Stall Limiter" added to the flight controls.  

Now this stall limiter is just about useless in any real tight spot.  BUT being able to scale my STICK at 100% of throw would allow me to reach a balance of my liking.

To my way of thinking allowing scaling at 100% of stick travel would have been a MUCH better solution than creating a whole new subroutine, and it would work a heck of a lot better too.

Anybody else notice this little detail?

OLtos

[Shane]

the stall limiter is uhhhhhh a "feature" for newbies and it also limits your ability to get 100% stick throw... so... ummm... you might want to, like, duuuudddeeee... get a dell....  no seriously... uncheck wherever it is that this limter is located and presto....

you *could* also uncheck it and futz with your scaling to achieve that newbie-ish kind of "limiter", but, why?  why penalize yourself in this way?  by allowing the new "feature" it's easy to turn on/off without messing with scaling, making it easier on newbies who also have a ton of other stuff to deal with.



 

[De OL OLtos]

Hi,

I don't use the stall limiter.  I do scale my stick a lot.  It helps me aim better, fly smoother etc.  The main thing I need to be able to do is scale my stick at 100%.

You see the problem isn't that I stall or black out.  It's the suddeness with which it happens.  Right now I can twitch wrong and send my plane into uncontrolled flight.

As for penalizing myself by scaling my stick.  I think it's a non-issue.  Having this much responsiveness just keeps putting me in a useless black out situation, or an uncontrolled snap roll or spin.  

Anyway it isn't a question of using the stall limiter or not.  Like you said, that critter is about useless.  I just need to be able to scale my stick at 100% of throw.

[J_A_B]

Hiya OLtos, how ya doing?

I too would like to be able to scale up to 100% of stick throw, for exactly the same reasons as you.  

It's not about preventing stalls (thats what the stall buzzer is for), it's about making more efficient use of our controls.  I don't know about anyone else, but I almost never move my stick more than about 2/3 of the way back as doing so results in either G-LOC or a spin.  If it were possible to scale out to 100%, then I'd be able to make better use of that "wasted" stick travel without having a very sudden jump between 90% and 100% travel.

J_A_B

[spiffykraits]

If you use a gameport rather than USB for your stick it is possible to limit the 100% throw to any value you choose using Stickworks CTFJ addon joystick vxd in memory (it will also scale the stick if you prefer that too).  The main component that causes nose bounce in AH is usually excessive rudder throw for me, so I use it to limit rudder throw to about 60% as my particular stick driver gives me excessive rudder throw, and the AH profiler doesn't limit the throw, only the profile.

See http://home.att.net/~stickworks/swdownld.html

[De OL OLtos]

<>  J_A_B, Spiffykraits!

This is the first time anyone has responded to this issue with anything constructive, (and I have been whining about it from my first day in Aces High to the present).  

Spiffy,

Unfortunately I am have a USB force feedback Saitek so I won't be able to use that stick scaller.  BUT, since you have revealed that such things exist I will begin searching for one that works on line.  Heck Saitek may even have one somewhere.  So, Thank You Very much for the input.


J_A_B

OH that nose bounce stuff made all De' OL' ONZ crazy for months!  I too am having trouble with the rudder and aiming.  I'll be doing a real gradual rudder twist with my stick to line up a shot,  boom! I am all over the sky because I crossed that lousy 90% - 100% threshold.  On my old MS sidewinder I even wrapped tape around the stem of the stick to keep me from even using that last 10%. But the tape kept compressing and letting me in.  Ugly mess.  But I can DEAL with that!  Falling out of the sky is just TOOO ugly for words.   I actually have a work around for the scalling/G-LOC thing.  If you very carefully set the curve of your sensetivity on your controls you  can set them up so that when they spike at the upper end they don't throw you into G-LOC.  I spent several HOURS off line figuring out that little piece of missery.

I swear this added realism is absolutely NOT worth the added complexitity and consequent decrease in fun.  All in all a poor compromise, espescially when you consider that "self centering" joysticks make the whole trim experience non-realstic in the end anyway.  Still, it's the only game left I guess.

Anyway, thanks for the response.  You give me hope.
OLtos

[Mark Luper]

You only scale your stick up to 90% because when you move your stick to 100% that is what you get.

Either you don't realize that or I don't understand what it is you are saying.

Are you wanting to limit the 100%?

I use a pretty slow reacting setup on my stick, but when I move the stick to it's stops that is what I want, 100%

I use a setup that makes the little line in the graph look like a fishline, with a belly in it about mid way, and it gets straighter the higher percentage of stick movement I use, in other words, it follows the permanent diagonal line towards the end.

If you are wanting to limit the controll movement then the stall limiter may be for you. I you want to maximise how "realistic" the plane flies for you and want to be smoother ( reason I use the fishline graph) then I wouldn't think you would want to limit overall stick input.

I may be misunderstanding you guys and please correct me if I am assuming something that is over my head.

P.S. Something you don't want to do when using the scaling is have a low value in the last three, the 70, 80, and 90% , because if you do it will jump when you hit the stops. Make it gradual. Actualy, make all the values a fairly gradual change from one to the other. Just make sure you are fairly high in the last three, especially the last one.

[spiffykraits]

The 100% throw on "my" rudder (it will depend purely on driver files) is excessive.  60% of the total throw for ground handling, and even stall turns is just right for me on my gameport CH  FFX setup.  

If I change stick to a USB MS one (which I've tried) I don't get nearly as much rudder movement at the 100% throw, so it's entirely a variation on particular stick drivers in Windows, and what particular stick drivers are being used whether USB or Gameport.  They ain't all the same.  

< just saying >

[Innominate]

Your joystick isn't a measure of where your aircrafts stick is.  It's a measure of how much force you are applying to it.

The stall limiter works by restricting your planes stick movement.  Once you learn to handle a plane, it's a crippling feature to have enabled.  You can get a much better turn rate by turning it off and riding the stall.

[De OL OLtos]

Hi,

That is just the problem.  I do NOT want 100% of control movement at 100% of stick travel.  That is , for me, under almost all conditions a very bad thing.  At that point I will either, a) pass out, or b). depart from controlled flight.  

From the posts I get the definite impressions that 100% of control surface travel is easily achieved on some sticks at considerably LESS than 100% of stick travel.  That is the problem.  The ability to scale your stick so that you get to that 100% of control surface travel SMOOTHLY is what I am trying to achieve.  The way the stick scaling is set up now I literally cannot ride the edge of a stall in a smooth predictable manner.  The game won't let me.

Now here is a real shocker.  I have been turn fighting the LA7, and winning.  In fact, after almost 9 months of this game I FINALLY managed to win a turnfight on purpose.  And, I did it by using the stall limiter.  


Thanks for you reply's
OLtos

[Demosthanese]

Quick question:
Is there a way to remove the "Don't move your controls too rapidly" message, along with it's associated limit of movement?

It makes it impossible to do aerobatics, and in some planes, all you have to do is pull the stick back while at high speeds to get that message. So far, it has cause more crashes than it has prevented.

[De OL OLtos]

Hi,

Go into "setup", then click "Joystick".  In there you can find all sorts of ways to customize what your stick will do.  The setting that can really help the problem you are having is "dampening".  

Dampening basically creates a short delay in the signal between your stick and the game.  Turn it up too high and you can have all sorts of abberant things happen to you.  Too low and you get that message a lot.  Many folks turn dampening up to about 1/4 and then fine tune from there.

Good Luck
OLtos

[Griego]

This is approximately the way i have my stick calibrated.


 0:          is 50%
 10:           60%
 20:           70%
 30:           80%
 40:           85%
 50:           90%
 60:           92%
 70:           95%
 80:           98%
 90:           100%  

  Deadband       20%
  Dampner         60%

 Plane smooth on all ACM's and near Stall
 Dampner slows down movement to keep you from doing quick movements that will cause you to stall and also helps if you got a spikey stick.

 The reason i use 20% Deadband is my stick is loose in center and it helps from getting out of Auto trims just because of a small movements.

 Maybe this will help.

 When i first started here I started at  10% on line 0 and went up in increments of 10. On pitch this seem to help some on the nose bounce I was getting. Now I use combat trim or angle trim to stop some of the bounce. AH is not as bouncy as WB's or iL2. That's why i was useing these calibrations first.

[De OL OLtos]

OLtad and I just finished doing a little testing.  What we found is that not all joysticks are equal.  He has a Logitech Wingman Extreme, I have a Saiteck 3d Force feedback and I have an MS Sidewinder Precision Pro.  Both of my sticks present me with a situation where I cannot engage in tight turning fights without loosing control and crashing or getting shot down as I tumble around in space.  Yet, OLtad, Manx and others engage in this kind of flying against spits and win in their P-38s.  

So I had OLtad join me in my P-38.  He was shocked at how completely out of control the snap roll situation was for me.  HIS p-38 literally could NOT snap roll the way mine was.

So I tried the Stall Limiter. That helped HUGELY, at lest the snap rolling was gone.  But to top off the cake I redid my stick scaling and treated the 90% slider as though it were my 100%. I set the 90% slider all the way up to 100%.  Then OLtad and I went at it in 38s.  I was all over him.  No snap rolls at all, AND  I was getting inside HIM on the turns.

Now everone and his 2nd cousin out there will say this cannot work.  That you will be giving up too much in turn fights and that it's suicide.  But ya know?  I am winning turnfights that I was absolutely unabel to even fly in before now.  So I count that as an improvement.  Moves that were standard stock moves in AW had become impossible for me to execute in Aces.  Now I am getting them back.  This may just work out after all.

I have attached a zip file with jpegs of my control settings.

OLtos Out

[TheManx]

It's not really easy to beat Spits in a 38 Oltos. You really have to know what your plane AND the other plane is capable of, and even then it's a terribly risky prospect in turnfights. I win a lot of fights vs spits, but probably every one of them that I've shot down can log in here and pick out a time that I've royally screwed up. If it is your stick settings though, I hope you clear it up.