I was killed in my Panzer(blown up) by a burst of 50 cal fire!, The GV armor model is

[john9001]

why do you people insist the panzer MK IV was some unstopable monster tank, it was a med tank with thin top ,side and rear armor

[SFRT - Frenchy]

How the heck you guys do that? When I straffe PZs from the rear I ping the crap out of them, 3 passes and they are still alive. I usually only disable their tracks.

[brady]

John, it has been proven time and time again that it was virtual imposable to kill a Panzer IV with a 50 cal MG, and this imobalization BS by the same weapon is almost as ludicurious.

    The facts point to this( and I hope I am all wet on it), GV in AH are modeled so that any weapon brought to bear on them and fired for long enough will disable them( or kill them), no mater what caliber it is. This is sharp contrast to historical fact, and to the laws of physics. nobody would stand for this BS in the aircraft modeling, i at a loss to see why it nead be so for the vehicals.

[Dowding (Work)]

Haven't flown enough in .50 cal equipped planes, but I find it very difficult to destroy tanks with straffing alone, even using the tiffie. Back in the days of 1.04, I seem to remember it being much easier - was there an adjustment between versions?

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by brady
John, it has been proven time and time again that it was virtual imposable to kill a Panzer IV with a 50 cal MG, and this imobalization BS by the same weapon is almost as ludicurious.

    The facts point to this( and I hope I am all wet on it), GV in AH are modeled so that any weapon brought to bear on them and fired for long enough will disable them( or kill them), no mater what caliber it is. This is sharp contrast to historical fact, and to the laws of physics. nobody would stand for this BS in the aircraft modeling, i at a loss to see why it nead be so for the vehicals.

Brady, the same can be said about all (at least I think its all) objects in the game. Try this offline, take a 109e with unlimited ammo, taxi up to the nearest hangar and start spraying with the 7.9mm mgs only...eventually the Hangar will be destroyed.

[Toad]

How about the example where the PzKfW IVH crewman stands in the turret hatch manning his single ~ .30 cal MG and shoots down an attacking fighter:

A) long before the fighter gets in range with his heavy MG or cannon

or

B) the crewman survives under a virtual blizzard of heavy MG or cannon hitting the top of the turret and said crewman destroys the attacking fighter?

Not to mention the open-topped Ostwind gun crewmen.

You want all of this fixed at the same time, right?  

And the cross-country model that allows GV's to go down hills at about 100 mph or so. You want that fixed too, right?

Yep, the GV damage model often leaves one scratching one's head. Along with a lot of other things about GV's. So let's not be selective. GV's are subject to some things that they probably shouldn't be very subject to. GV's can also do some things that they shouldn't be able to do. Go figure, eh?

[brady]

Toad:

"How about the example where the PzKfW IVH crewman stands in the turret hatch manning his single ~ .30 cal MG and shoots down an attacking fighter: "

 This hapens very rarely, yes I have done it, but only after landing a ton of hits on him, and yes it is kinda BS, but mor plausable than my points listed above about the 50 cal ammo.

"A) long before the fighter gets in range with his heavy MG or cannon"

 Since when I have never killed a plane by landing hits on a plane with the MG 34 at ranges in excess of 1k.

or

"B) the crewman survives under a virtual blizzard of heavy MG or cannon hitting the top of the turret and said crewman destroys the attacking fighter? "

 Ya this is BS

"Not to mention the open-topped Ostwind gun crewmen."

 Now this I certainly take exception too I lose my turet all the time form all kinds of strafing atacks by planes from all angles, even the imposable Low angle atacks whear I should have the aromr protecting me, is the exception rather than the rule that my gun in the osty survives a strafing atack, trust me m8t I spent a lot of time in one last tour.

"You want all of this fixed at the same time, right? "

   Why not, it is messed up man It has been for a long long time, HTC is capable of doing it right I am just asking for that, or for sombody to prove me wrong.

"And the cross-country model that allows GV's to go down hills at about 100 mph or so. You want that fixed too, right?"

 That is a little off of course, but who does that hurt, it is fun and since for the most part the vehical spawn points are redicusaly far from the bases on most of the maps it helps get you their faster.

"Yep, the GV damage model often leaves one scratching one's head. Along with a lot of other things about GV's. So let's not be selective. GV's are subject to some things that they probably shouldn't be very subject to. GV's can also do some things that they shouldn't be able to do. Go figure, eh?"

 So you are rationalising a glaring inacuracery by saying aw shucks we can 100 down hill so a 50 cal should be able to kill us to make up for that?

[Masherbrum]

NOTHING beats a Jug with 8 .50's converging at 650.  

Masher

[Toad]

Originally posted by brady
Toad:
 So you are rationalising a glaring inacuracery by saying aw shucks we can 100 down hill so a 50 cal should be able to kill us to make up for that?

No. I'm saying it seems to me that you think all the things that bother you should bother everyone and should be fixed right away.

The things that bother other people shouldn't bother anyone and aren't nearly as important and really don't need to be fixed because those things don't bother you much.

"Selective indignation" perhaps? I'm not sure how I would characterize it.

It's sort of an offshoot of "selective reality" isn't it?

I could say that allowing a fighter to dive at 2-3X it's normal "downhill" speed is fun and doesn't really hurt anyone since everyone could do it. But I don't think you'd go along with that..... but tanks at 2-5 X their normal speed.. it's fun!

Spawn points? Hey, isn't REALITY the Holy Grail? Who would want to cheat a tanker out of making a 3 day long road march to attack an enemy facility? Not me! But I don't think you'd go along with that, right?



Never said things couldn't be improved...

Let's all be selective.  

[F4UDOA]

I did the same thing in a D-Hog about two weeks ago. There was no other damage to him. I watched him pull out of the VH. Took about three runs at him. Then one from about 75 degrees and popped him with 6 50cals. I think I was more shocked than him.

Seriously I think the armor of the Panzer is undermodeled and the Osty is overdone.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
How the heck you guys do that? When I straffe PZs from the rear I ping the crap out of them, 3 passes and they are still alive. I usually only disable their tracks.

I'll describe what happened the other night at A41 of Baltic map.

We had a large group of GVs approaching the field from the west along the coast. I grabbed my trusty Wildcat (FM-2) with two 100 lbs bombs and six HVAR rockets. Why take a Wildcat and not a Jug or Corsair? 'Cause the FM-2, for some unknown reason, is one of the best GV killers in the game.

My first run was on the Panzer nearest the field. I salvo both 100 pounders and get direct hits. Boom goes the Panzer. Nearby, there's an Osti shooting at me, so I set up and make a vertical run at him, salvoing all 6 rockets. Boom goes the Osti. There are three more Panzers behind the dead Osti. I make my gunnery runs from their high 7-8 O'clock position (their pintle guns can't cover that position without rotating the turret first). I make one run on each, starting with the last one. After that one run on each, they are all smoking and immobile. I make another run on #3, he explodes. Same for #2. It took two more runs to kill #1. So, 5 GVs dead and I still have nearly 500 rounds of .50 cal remaining! Holy cow!!! I can't hope to do that with a C-Hog!!!

Maybe it's an FM-2 glitch. Maybe it's shooting depleted uranium, FSAPDS rounds, I can't say. But something is wrong with the modelling somewhere. Four fifties should not kill a Panzer IVH in two passes..... Probably not at all with guns alone.  

However, until it's changed, I'm gonna feast on GVs.

My regards,

Widewing

[BaD kaRmA 158Th]

Do not forget one big thing here fellas.

I think after 1942 every single fighter plane in the united states air cores and airforce hed three diffrent types of ammo per gun.

1:tracer
2:AP
3:standard
1:tracer
2:AP
3:standard
1:tracer
2:AP
3:standard

or was it

1:tracer
2:AP
3:standard
4:standard

Not sure..but i KNOW for a fact it was standard..some .50's on the ground had the same  ammo layout..same thing with most .30 cals.

THIS may be a reason why the p-478 kills "better" is the fact more AP rounds get slung at the target in a shorter time vs say 4 .50's
x2 the chance. with 8.

I dunno i think all GV's are god.

Its like this fellas..theres no such thing as cant be killed.

Think about it, you think our government said..ehh well this tank is to strong for us to kill them in any good number..so we will just skip those targets and go onto the next one"
diddly NO..blast em untill there armor gives out..blast em untill the bolts givew way..blast them untill the armount of ammo you hit em with makes em' sick..like 4 germans siting in a large bell being RUNG by 8 .50's
maby they just get sick and bail out?
i dunno.

Think what you want..but hit anything enough..it will that target will fail..time..and time again.

Also..about the belly bounceing "shooting ammo at an angle and geting a kill from the under belly of a tank"
its true..my grandfather did it a few times that he's flown.
Think about this..shot a round in the air..yeah it will stop..then come back down..going what?
you guessed it..faster.
so get the image of a bullet thats being fired while the planes going over 300 "300+whatever the nomal speed of the round is"
now..by each feet it travles..add 3 mph. "or was it 3 feet per every mile per hour?"
now add that all up..and you'll get your bullet speed.

Hope this sheds some light.

BaD kaRmA of the 158Th, out.

[BaD kaRmA 158Th]

Its also game play fellas.

Chances to hit hit % hit dmg.

see..your fm2 can only take 800 per wing "400 per gun i think"
imagine trying to kill  a tank with that much ammo..if ya have fighters swarming you.

I have straffed a whirl wind 3 times last night and he didnt die..so tell me your secret fellas..cause ofnow..im thinkin' your all full of it.
or this guy was a damn god..maby he was because my other wingman couldnt hit kill him even with 8 rockets.

This games dmg systems got issues.

Game play, Game play, Game play.

Sheez..id like to die by .20's and not have my 4 .50's do more dmg cause i landed more hits..THATS bull toejam..its not fair..and it does NOT make sence.

x.20mm on f4u vs my 4 .50's on the wildcat, and i ALWAYS win head ones.
And that to me is bull toejam..i can stand defeat if its called for..what i cannot stand is a victory unaccounted for because of the game play..if that guys .20 mm hit my plane 3 times..there should be heavy dmg..so what gives??????????????????

Im sick of wining when the victorys are uncalled for..thats like being happy i shot down the lanC with 4 .50's and 40 rounds left in each wing..now THATS roadkill. and it happend.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by BaD kaRmA 158Th
Its also game play fellas.

I have straffed a whirl wind 3 times last night and he didnt die..so tell me your secret fellas..cause ofnow..im thinkin' your all full of it.
or this guy was a damn god..maby he was because my other wingman couldnt hit kill him even with 8 rockets.

No secrets, just roll in and whack 'em with guns, bombs or rockets. Marksmenship is certainly a factor, but the Wildcat is a real beast to begin with.

From tour 30 stats, when the event described earlier occurred:

widewing has 12 kills and has been killed 0 times in the FM2 against the Panzer IV H.

widewing has 6 kills and has been killed 0 times in the FM2 against the Ostwind.

widewing has 12 kills and has been killed 1 time in the FM2 against the LVTA2.

widewing has 3 kills and has been killed 0 times in the FM2 against the M-3.

Let's not forget that the FM-2 is a badass PT killer too:

widewing has 16 kills and has been killed 0 times in the FM2 against the PT Boat.

Gentlemen, the FM-2 is a monster in fighter or attack mode...

How did I do in other planes? Not nearly as well.

widewing has 7 kills and has been killed 2 times in the F4U-1C against the PT Boat.

widewing has 0 kills and has been killed 1 time in the F4U-1C against the Panzer IV H.

widewing has 2 kills and has been killed 2 times in the P-51D against the Panzer IV H.

widewing has 2 kills and has been killed 0 times in the P-51D against the Ostwind.

widewing has 4 kills and has been killed 0 times in the P-51D against the M-3.

widewing has 2 kills and has been killed 1 time in the P-51D against the PT Boat.

There's no question in my mind that I used similar tactics, but the chances of success where much lower in the P-51 or C-Hog than in the lowly FM-2.

Consider that the P-51D has two more guns and a huge advantage in underwing ord, and the F4U-1C has those mighty Hizookas with a humongous ammo load. Now tell me, why is the FM-2 so much more effective and successful? I'd like to know myself. I haven't a clue.

My regards,

Widewing

[GRUNHERZ]

I dont think HTC makes every plane quite even in being hit.  For example it has been my experience a 109  is less likely to get hit by field ack than FW190 when strafing ack.  Maybe FM2 is this way also?