Author Topic: Brief thoughts on Sadam  (Read 1939 times)

Offline Hortlund

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2002, 12:27:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
Well Miko, at the end of the day Sweden won't be commiting forces in any meaningful scale to such an action. It will be the good ol' US, with token support from the UK (despite the fact our armed forces are stretched past breaking point).

Perhaps Sweden could sell some arms to the protagonists? That's usually our job, but for obvious reasons there is a gap in the market. If you can sell to Nazis, I'm sure Saddam is almost a step up the moral ladder.

Frankly, there's been ample opportunity in the last 12 years to overthrow Saddam. Kurdish uprisings encouraged, but not supported when they finally come out into the open. Iraqi military uprisings encouraged and not supported... etc etc etc.


Nah, we would never sell arms to arabs...

Offline AKSWulfe (FMPW)

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Re: Re: Re: Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2002, 12:36:14 PM »
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Originally posted by AKIron
I think we'll sneak in and take him out and install a puppet.


I hope it's  Count Blah from Greg the Bunny!
-SW

Offline AKIron

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2002, 12:41:53 PM »
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe (FMPW)


I hope it's  Count Blah from Greg the Bunny!
-SW


Had to look that up. :D
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Elfenwolf

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2002, 01:00:45 PM »
Uh... not to put a dampner on all of you armchair generals planning our next war, but shouldn't someone ask the Iraqi people if they want Sadaam out? I question rather we have the right to oust a foreign head of state and I wonder what the Arab response would be if we start replacing Arab governments with puppet regimes?

Offline Hortlund

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2002, 01:10:04 PM »
Its ok Elf, I asked them yesterday.

They said go ahead.

Offline rogwar

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2002, 01:24:31 PM »
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Originally posted by Elfenwolf
Uh... not to put a dampner on all of you armchair generals planning our next war, but shouldn't someone ask the Iraqi people if they want Sadaam out? I question rather we have the right to oust a foreign head of state and I wonder what the Arab response would be if we start replacing Arab governments with puppet regimes?


We are a democracy dammit! Who gives a rat's canasta what they think. For heaven's sake gentlemen, stop fighting in the warroom.

Offline Elfenwolf

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2002, 01:26:23 PM »
Steve, my concerns are the potential results of invading Iraq more than any concern for Sadaam Hussein. What do you think the reaction of the Arab world will be?

Offline Hortlund

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2002, 01:50:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Elfenwolf
Steve, my concerns are the potential results of invading Iraq more than any concern for Sadaam Hussein. What do you think the reaction of the Arab world will be?


Outrage.

Most governments will remain calm though, no one really wants to get on the bad side of the US after 9-11. So the governments will express concern, but at the same time people will take to the streets burning US flags etc. If someone like OBL would step into the media light, the US had better wax that person really quick (perhaps the Mossad can do it) because that in itself is a potentially disasterous situation, that could very well indeed bring civil wars to many of the arabic countries. Saudi is especially vunerable, together with Egypt.

It is however worth it. Saddam will sooner or later attack the US with weapons of mass destruction. He must be removed. If the region destabilizes for a couple of years, it is not too bad. Might lead to war in the region, but I doubt it. More likely there will be increased pressure on Israel, so the US would have to put in extra support there.

Offline Thrawn

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2002, 01:55:42 PM »
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Originally posted by rogwar


We are a democracy dammit! Who gives a rat's canasta what they think. For heaven's sake gentlemen, stop fighting in the warroom.


You're kidding, right?

Offline miko2d

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2002, 01:57:38 PM »
Hortlund: meanwhile on planet earth...
Saddam Hussein has started two wars, one against Iran, one against Kuweit. He has used chemical weapons against Iran and he has used chemical weapons against insurgents in his own country.

 Who cares - unless he attacks US, Canada or Mexico or one of NATO countries he can do whatever he wants. He is in Russia's backyard. China is right there, India, Israel. Let them take care of their crap. You can buy a ticket and join Kurdish resistance any day.

He rules his country the same way a mideaval baron would do it. He orders people excecuted whenever he suspects anything, no matter how trivial. He has placed relatives in all positions of power in Iraq.
 Even if it was any of our concern, it is still better than his neighbours that we protect from him. How about Pakistan? Afghanistan? Much democracy there since we liberated them?

He funds numerous terrorist organizations
 Not as much as Iran and Saudis & Co. And at the time we invaded him in 91 russa was a big terrorism supporter too.

he is implementing an agressive Chemical and Biological weapons program. It is a known fact that he has large stockpiles of Nerve gas and Anthrax, it is also widely known that he is agressively seeking to get his hands on nuclear weapons or radiaoctive material. He is also trying to obtain the smallpox virus from Russia.
 He is surrounded by medieval religious militant states who all hate him - who said those weapons were against us? I do not see you calling to attack Pakistan or India or Israel for the same reason.

Like it or not, he has named the USA and Israel as his main enemies.
 Everybody named Israel as his main enamy - including Europe and more than half americans. As for US, we invaded them, whad did you expect?
 I bet if we appologised and offered restitutions - or even assurance that he can take back Kuwait and Saudi, he would revert to being our best friend.

He will do whatever he can to destroy the USA and Israel.
 BS. Russians could not do that, germans could not do that. He does not need to do that - plenty of our "friends" are more eager than him.

When he gets his hands on any more potent weapon of mass destruction he will use it.  And he will use it against the USA.
 BS. If he uses it against Saudis or Quwait, I do not care. Unless they apply to join NATO we do not have to protect them.
 He will not attack Israel first since that would mean complete obliteration of Iraq (among other things). And he is not a religious fanatic willing to die.

 But when that first smallpox virus bomb detonates in New York, or when that dirty bomb goes off in Seattle, he will be the one who ordered it.
 I suspect that Saudis will beat him to that.
 We cannot stop everyone who wants to blow us up - our security is nonexistant, our borders are open, our society is vulnerable. The safest way for us would be to mind our own business and stop pissing people off. They have anough problem of their own to worry about us.

In the real world, real people have to deal with real dangers. Saddam Hussein is a threat to the western world, he will continue to be such a threat until he is removed.
 Did we defeat Soviet Union? No. And where are they? Right - our friends now.
 How about China? Should we knock off their head of state?
 How about Duch? Those legalised pot. Should we save them and stop bad influence on US?

 Here is the main and real question:
 Tell me, would you be calling for the same invasion if Iraq had never invaded Kuwait? Because I cannot see how his claim to Kuwait is linked to all those bad things.
 If he was our friend and client before invasion of Kuwait and if most americans do not give a damn about Kuwait, what did change? Could it be that we declared ourselves his enemy, not the other way around?

 miko
« Last Edit: August 06, 2002, 02:00:09 PM by miko2d »

Offline wsnpr

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2002, 02:04:32 PM »
Funny how all of a sudden Iraq is such an immediate threat to US and world security. It wouldn't have anything to do with the Enron scandal now would it? Worldcom? Those that took part in the 9-11 hijackings were from where? Most were from Saudi Arabi and Egypt, supposedly our allies. They weren't from Iraq. Please post your sources that show Iraqi involvement in that attack.
If we do attack/invade Iraq, it will be without Arab coalition forces. In fact they might come to the aid of Iraq. City fighting is a far cry from open desert warfare. Casualties will be high.

Offline AKSWulfe (FMPW)

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2002, 02:07:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
[ Did we defeat Soviet Union? No. And where are they? Right - our friends now.


Not a good comparison Miko. They are a far cry from what they were when they were our enemies. And it wasn't until they changed their government (and leader) that we became "friends", which we still really aren't.

Good acquatances, sure.. friends... give that 3 more years or another world war for that to happen.
-SW

Offline wsnpr

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2002, 02:09:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
Heh, fun thing is I mean every word of it :)

Although I cannot take credit for the "We should invade Iraq, kill their leaders and convert the people to Christianity"-part.

Yup, those are the words of Ann Coulter...now I ask you all again...is it humanly possible NOT to fall in love with that girl? :)


Quit letting your small head do the thinking for your large head, she's not to bright. Please tell me how you convert people against their will to another religion?

Offline wsnpr

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2002, 02:16:57 PM »
Question to all you Saddam is pure evil and will destroy the US:
How will he destroy the US?
Surely, if one nuke, chemical, or biological attack on US soil, killing innocent civillians, would result in that attacking country being turned into glass. The US is the only country to have used nukes in the past and won't hesitate to do so in the future in retaliation. Quit being so paranoid. Saddam can't hurt us that bad. He'd just sign his and all of Iraq's death warrant if he tried.

Offline rogwar

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Brief thoughts on Sadam
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2002, 02:52:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn


You're kidding, right?


A paraphrased quote from the movie Dr. Strangelove tends is a strong clue that I'm kidding.

It's also funny how only AKIron has answered my real question so far. And to think of my disclaimer: "The intent is not to start that debate with this thread." I started another thread though to get opinions on my question.

Carry on...
« Last Edit: August 06, 2002, 02:55:46 PM by rogwar »