This thread is here to discuss the issue of slaved gun positions and external views in bombers, please stick to those topics. If you want to talk about high alt bomber performance, bombsight accuracy, or car bombing, please find or start another thread.
Since the Beta days in AH, when the guns on the B-17 first became active, a handful of folks have complained about multiple bomber guns (positions) being able to fire from one station or turret.
The gist of the complaint is that it is not realistic for 2 or 3 guns to fire on command of 1 gunner (B-29 style).
While this is true, I have yet to see a good, realistic argument as to how it is not fair to give bomber gunners this one concession.
The result of this concession for the gunner and the basis for the complaint, (compared to reality) is that one gunner can typically put out 2 times as much lead as he should be able to. A secondary result is that he will have 2 parallel streams of fire at side or deflection angles, thus creating 2 close "hit zones".
Why has this concession been made?
Because bombers in AH only have only 1 gunner to man all stations.
In reality, every gunner who could, would fire at an approaching enemy.
Why should we expect less in this sim?
Allowing only the manned gun to fire is a less realistic approach than having slaved guns fire at the control of 1 gunner.
The concession is made for the individual gunner, not the firepower of the entire bomber.
Some have made references that imply that the slave set of guns would not (or should not) be as accurate as the human gunner. Yes, when one gunner is "on" (target) the other may be "off", but then again when the first gunner is off, the second may be on. Most of the time that a gunner is shooting, he is missing. Firepower is not as much of an issue as accuracy is for gunners. A single 50 cal. gun (for each direction) would be sufficient for a bomber if it never missed its target.
Personally, I would gladly give up my slaved gun for another human gunner (of equal skill). Yes, each of our fire power would be cut in half, but, the odds of one of us finding a hit solution would be doubled. A good trade in my book.
Imagine 3 duck hunters.
One hunts alone and has a double barrel shotgun that fires both rounds at once.
The other 2 have single shot guns (of the same gauge) and hunt together.
If you were a duck, who would you rather fly past?
Others have insisted that gunners should be able to join any or all positions, but not allow slaved guns.
Anyone who thinks that this is a more realistic approach does not know much about flight sim people. Teamwork is rare in flight sims, it is not realistic to expect it to be the norm. The vast majority of bombers would still fly without gunners (In Tour Nineteen, 21,532 bombers were shot down. 443 had gunners, that's only 2%). Bombers would be flying with empty gun positions. This is not realistic, nor is it realistic to expect someone to ride along as a gunner for someone else when they could be flying their own plane.
External Views:
Why should bombers get external views?
Because bombers had multiple gunners who's job it was to scan for enemy fighters at all directions. 98% of all bombers in this sim have only 1 person doing the job of many. Giving that 1 person an external view, closer resembles the attack warnings that the bomber would have gotten from it's gunner compared to having the 1 person jump from gun to gun.
In AH, it is very possible to sneak up on a bomber.
A common trick among AH fighter pilots is to hold off an attack until the pilot/gunner/bombardier is in the bombsight. This is unrealistic, and puts the bomber at a disadvantage compared to reality (not that I don't do it myself
).
The bottom line is that even though bomber pilot/gunner/bombardiers can do something unrealistic (external view), the situational awareness of the entire bomber (crew) is most often at a lower state than it would have been in reality.
I would bet that the majority of AH pilots would trade the external view mode for a Otto-Check-Six mode (computer voice: Check 4:00 high,... Check 5:00 high,... Check 6:00 high,... Enemy in range! Check 6:00 level! For God sake, shoot you moron!... etc. ).
Conclusion: Slaved gun positions and external views in bombers are concessions given to bomber pilots so that the jobs that are typically done by many can more realistically be done by 1 person.
eskimo
[ 09-27-2001: Message edited by: eskimo2 ]
