Author Topic: V1  (Read 530 times)

Offline Monk

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V1
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2002, 12:07:26 PM »
.....Hmmmm, let me think.:)

Offline Widewing

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V1
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2002, 12:36:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by -ammo-


P-47M was used to intercept them;):D


Actually, while the motivation to produce the P-47M was to intercept Doodle Bugs, they never did. This was simply due to the fact that by the time the Ms went operational, allied troops had over-run most of the V-1 launch sites. Not to mention that the Tempest and Meteor were available in adequate numbers by then.

Also, Republic did their own development program using an old P-47C and the new R2800 C series engine about a year before the USAAF formally requested a hotrod model for chasing down V-1s. Essentially, when presented with the new requirement, they pulled out the year-old test data and said, more or less, "been there, done that." If I recall correctly, the three YP-47Ms were P-47D-27-RE fighters pulled from the production line and retro-fitted with the high-output C series engines. This engine was also adopted for the long-range P-47N, which could also trace its ancestry back to that old P-47C test mule, which first tested the new wing with integral fuel tanks (previous Jugs carried all internal fuel in the fuselage).

My regards,

Widewing
« Last Edit: August 12, 2002, 02:24:06 PM by Widewing »
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline eddiek

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Yup, Widewing, you are correct.......
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2002, 12:52:50 PM »
From worldwar2aviation.com:
The production P-47M fighters did not reach operational status until after many of the V-1 launch sites were over-run by Allied ground forces. Deployed to 3 squadrons of the 56th Fighter Group, the new fighter likely did not chase very many flying bombs. Inasmuch as most aviation historians claim that the P-47M was designed specifically to intercept the V-1, it will come as a surprise to them to learn that the prototype existed more than a year before the first V-1 was launched at Britain. Moreover, the P-47D, deployed in large numbers, was certainly fast enough to overtake the V-1. It was only coincidence that the XP-47M and the R-2800 C series engines were available when the V-1's began falling on London.

The new M models also suffered a fair amount of teething troubles. The C series engines suffered from high altitude ignition leaks and burned pistons. The 56th kept many of their older D models until the new M had its bugs corrected. Nonetheless, once sorted out, the P-47M was the fastest propeller driven fighter to see combat service in any Air Force in the ETO. Capable of speeds up to 475 mph, the M was a true "hotrod"."

I believe that covers most of what ammo, MiloMorai and widewing said.
Since AH does not cover real life maintenance or reliability issues, I want to ask MiloMorai, what is your point about the initial problems the P-47M experienced?  To point out flaws?  To imply subtlely that the was a flawed bird and does not need to be modelled in AH?
If so, look at other planes and their reliability issues:
109G6.....mysterious engine fires, one of which killed Marseilles
N1K2J......engines were notoriously unreliable, prone to failure
Me262.....engine flameouts made this aircraft more suitable to experten than new pilots
Me163.....numerous problems with launching, extremely hazardous fuels prone to exploding...etc.

Just wondering.............


"

Offline Widewing

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Re: Yup, Widewing, you are correct.......
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2002, 01:02:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by eddiek
From worldwar2aviation.com:
The production P-47M fighters did not reach operational status until after many of the V-1 launch sites were over-run by Allied ground forces. Deployed to 3 squadrons of the 56th Fighter Group, the new fighter likely did not chase very many flying bombs. Inasmuch as most aviation historians claim that the P-47M was designed specifically to intercept the V-1, it will come as a surprise to them to learn that the prototype existed more than a year before the first V-1 was launched at Britain. Moreover, the P-47D, deployed in large numbers, was certainly fast enough to overtake the V-1. It was only coincidence that the XP-47M and the R-2800 C series engines were available when the V-1's began falling on London.

The new M models also suffered a fair amount of teething troubles. The C series engines suffered from high altitude ignition leaks and burned pistons. The 56th kept many of their older D models until the new M had its bugs corrected. Nonetheless, once sorted out, the P-47M was the fastest propeller driven fighter to see combat service in any Air Force in the ETO. Capable of speeds up to 475 mph, the M was a true "hotrod"."

I believe that covers most of what ammo, MiloMorai and widewing said.
Since AH does not cover real life maintenance or reliability issues, I want to ask MiloMorai, what is your point about the initial problems the P-47M experienced?  To point out flaws?  To imply subtlely that the was a flawed bird and does not need to be modelled in AH?
If so, look at other planes and their reliability issues:
109G6.....mysterious engine fires, one of which killed Marseilles
N1K2J......engines were notoriously unreliable, prone to failure
Me262.....engine flameouts made this aircraft more suitable to experten than new pilots
Me163.....numerous problems with launching, extremely hazardous fuels prone to exploding...etc.

Just wondering.............


"


Just for the record, worldwar2aviation.com is me..... :D

Maybe we should offer another source for confirmation. Bodie or Bowers will do. ;)


My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline MiloMorai

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« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2002, 01:29:58 PM »
No eddiek was not my intention but if you see it that way, OK;) Anyway it was ammo that brought up the reliability issue first.

Now a slight correction. The 1st P-47M arrived at Boxted Jan.3 1945. (see this date Monk, no 1944) By late Feb. 1945, all P-47Ms had been grounded even though some operational sorties had been flown. It was the second half  of March 1945 before the P-47M would again be combat ready(truly operational).

OBTW, Marseille was killed (Sept 30 1942) while flying a F-4, not a G-6. Marseille was long dead since the G-6 did not reach front-line units until Feb.1943. Marseille also flew in I./JG27, not II./JG27 which was the first JG27 unit to receive the G-6.

Offline eddiek

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« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2002, 01:49:16 PM »
My apologies MiloMorai......I had read that Marseilles was in a G6 when he died, thus my reference to that plane.
Widewing!  I knew that was your website, just poking fun at ya!
BTW, never noticed your pic at the bottom before, maybe I just didn't scroll down far enough before today.

P.S.:  STILL waiting on the rest of your interview with Robert S. Johnson to be posted......;)

Offline -ammo-

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« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2002, 01:54:39 PM »
milomorai--

I have the evidence to rebutt that jan 45 dayte at home. I will quote it from there after work.

Quote
Very, very doubtful since the P-47M went operational in April 1945.


jan, or apr?
Commanding Officer, 56 Fighter Group
Retired USAF - 1988 - 2011

Offline eddiek

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Im not as up to speed on LW as I am USAAF.....
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2002, 01:56:08 PM »
Here is the website I looked at that told me what plane Marseille was in:
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/hanstate.html

Of course, I was still wrong, they said  it was a G-2, not a G-6.  Still, I seem to recall reading about his plane type suffering from engine fires, will have to look for the source again.

!

Offline MiloMorai

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« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2002, 04:10:13 PM »
me to eddiek, was a new G-2 that broke an oil line and caught fire.:o

Offline -ammo-

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« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2002, 08:04:37 PM »
Milo, you are correct, and I stand corrected. It rolled out ready for delivery in Oct.

Commanding Officer, 56 Fighter Group
Retired USAF - 1988 - 2011