Author Topic: Ships - Task Group Model so Dumb (Read 373 times)

Minotaur · « **on:** August 09, 2002, 10:51:31 PM »

Look at how many players now land kills from ships...

It is because HTC makes them invincible, quakable, gameable.

You name it, just dorky as hell.

Get at least a little real, make the ship guns die and the players in them show up as kills.

Halo · « **Reply #1 on:** August 10, 2002, 12:51:10 PM »

Good point, and since I get a lot of my kills manning ship guns, I know exactly what you're talking about. However, I'd still man ship guns if I died more -- just like floatin' around and blasting away with all that firepower.

However, I think there is some minor scoring for ship gun crew deaths, isn't there? Seems to me I've given and received a couple. Think it involves scoring a direct hit on, for example, a cv turret that's manned.

Another factor is when ships are sunk, not all the crew necessarily die; in fact, many survive, including many gunners.

PT boats being much smaller and more fragile score as deaths, although many PT crew could also survive attacks.

Like most stuff in Aces High, ship crew inflicting and receiving kills involves some best guesses and compromises. I don't ship cv and cruiser gunners should be invincible, but I don't think they are should always die either when their rides are sunk.

Anybody have any recommended scoring formulas in this area that Hi Tech should consider?

Pooh21 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 10, 2002, 04:36:49 PM »

Yeah there should be more risk involved for field and ship guns. Before taking a break last tour I was in the .5in on the cv covering friendlys, anyway a Spit 14 comes in and to my surprise second shot I send off at him he blew to kingdom come. 60 perks down the drain to a ship gun he wasnt even paying attention to. LOL but he was a spit14 so he quite derserved it. Back to the subject the field guns especially need to have some risk involved as currently you have a kill scored when you knock someone down. But when someones mgs turn you and your gun crew to chunky salsa you just go back to tower, same with ship guns. Maybe score direct hits as kills, plus a random percentage chance of dying if ship is sunk, with modfiers I.E. open mounts easy to get to lifeboat while BBs 10" turret your going down with the boat.

Minotaur · « **Reply #3 on:** August 11, 2002, 07:47:36 PM »

Grrrr, still mad......

Why are players in ship guns invincible?

Why to field guns have no tracers, from air. But from gunner show tracer?

Dumb!

Yeager · « **Reply #4 on:** August 11, 2002, 08:05:34 PM »

Disable the fleet AI ack whenever a person is manning a gun.

Require teamwork to save a fleet and make it more human dependant. Hell....do the same to fields

eddiek · « **Reply #5 on:** August 11, 2002, 09:25:33 PM »

I agree Yeager.
Once someone mans a field gun or ship gun, the AI ought to shut down IMO.

Midnight · « **Reply #6 on:** August 11, 2002, 10:51:39 PM »

You can't just shut down AI if someone mans the guns...

Dweeb - o - rama would take place all the time.

1. Some 1/2 blind guy will man the ship to gun and all the AA shuts off... ship dies too easy. Every one else yells... DON"T MAN THE GUNS.. LET THE AI DO IT!!!!

2. Ship is hidden somewhere. Enemy defects to other side and mans a gun just as his buddies come in NOE for attack. Of course enemy spy does not shoot the gun.. No AI to defend... ship dies..

Etc. Etc.

The ships should be able to take and show damage. All or nothing for a boat is kind of lame.

brady · « **Reply #7 on:** August 12, 2002, 02:10:45 AM »

Guning for ship's/ or field guns means SQUAT, zero Zip Nauta, you get nothing for it, no perks no rank nothing.

Ships IN AH are extreamly easy to kill, one guy can kill a TF in a matter of minutes.

If you are dumb enough to follow a plane into fleat ack you get what u deserve.

I don't mean to come off to harsh, but it is a reality of the game.

One man can die ack a smal field and live without any damage at all if done properly. Two men can easly de ack the larger fields with impunity if they work together. The only viable defense any of the fields have is if their guns are maned. Same for the fleats, but even if the guns are maned they stand no chance aganst the sucide dweeb.

Shiva · « **Reply #8 on:** August 12, 2002, 08:23:02 AM »

Quote

One man can die ack a smal field and live without any damage at all if done properly. Two men can easly de ack the larger fields with impunity if they work together. The only viable defense any of the fields have is if their guns are maned. Same for the fleats, but even if the guns are maned they stand no chance aganst the sucide dweeb.

An artifact of the unrealistically small AAA defenses of the various fields.

As I posted over in the ''Hooligan Bomber" thread, Rabaul -- admittedly a very important port, and defended accordingly -- had for AAA defense, besides the AAA on the many IJN vessels in the harbor, land-mounted AAA consisting of 8 127mm, 15 120mm, 20 80mm, 75 70mm, 110 40mm, 92 25mm, 157 20mm, and one 13mm. These were distributed among 7 AAA battalions and five field machinecannon companies. Many were mounted on the slopes of the two volcanoes dominating the harbor so they could fire down on low level intruders.

It would make jaboing a field a much more suicidal proposition if we had field defenses that more closely resembled what was actually used -- and it would bring the heavy bombers back into the base-capture mechanism by making their ability to cover large swaths of a field with craters much more attractive in terms of taking down enough of the field acks so the jabos could get in to deliver their eggs on point targets.

myelo · « **Reply #9 on:** August 12, 2002, 09:53:39 AM »

What would people think about setting the fleet AA guns so that the individual guns could be killed? That is, you could try to de-ack the fleet like at fields. Seems like this would be more realistic.

SKurj · « **Reply #10 on:** August 12, 2002, 01:17:26 PM »

How ya gonna kill them guns and live? Or are ya just gonna suicide jabo kill a couple and repeat? oops by then the ship is dead anyways...

And the cruiser dies(and all its AA) with one jabo pass anyways...

SKurj

stynger · « **Reply #11 on:** August 12, 2002, 06:21:49 PM »

hopefully future updates will include more in the naval arena.while i realise ah is a flight sim,more could be done to expand the realsm in this aspect of the game. damage done to specific parts of a ship should disable that function[ie:turrets,elevators on cv deck,aa guns], visible signs of damage would also be a welcomed change. it would give following attackers an idea as to where and how much ordinance is needed to finish the job. cv commanders would also benefit,they would have a more viable way of knowing how much damage thier fleet has sustained

SKurj · « **Reply #12 on:** August 12, 2002, 10:39:05 PM »

Alotta them Fleet gunner kills are suicide jabos ...

I don't find fleet gunner kill numbers any more ridiculous than the suicide fighter/bombers.

Sure they would like less ack on each death dive meaning they can then sink the CV in fewer runs.

Even a good 5" gunner won't gettem before he drops, everytime...

SKurj

Minotaur · « **Reply #13 on:** August 12, 2002, 10:42:29 PM »

Ship gunners and field gunners don't even have to worry about friendly fire....

SKurj · « **Reply #14 on:** August 12, 2002, 11:04:07 PM »

the guys on 5" sure do... the damn friendlies get in front of the gun and effectively block your shots.... +)

Field gunners die to about 2 .50 rounds so i can't see a problem there...

SKurj