Testing of the damage model

[Hortlund]

I did some testing together with a squaddie in the DA.

The testing was done with a M3 for .50cal, a PzIVH for 7.92 (and as target), and an Ostwind (as target).

Method:
The two vehicles are driven so they stand front to front approx 100 yards away from each other.

I have film of all these events in case someone wants it or doesnt believe me or whatever.

The idea is I'll return to this post and update it the more testing I get done.


Effects of the current damage model:

7.92mm MG can penetrate and destroy the tracks on a PzIVH.

7.92mm MG can penetrate front turret armor and destroy turret on a PzIVH

7.92mm MG can penetrate front hull armor and destroy bow MG on a PzIHV

7.92mm MG can penetrate and destroy tracks on Ostwind

7.92mm MG can penetrate and destroy Ostwind turret from the front

7.92mm MG can penetrate concrete building and rubble it

.50cal can penetrate and destroy tracks on PzIVH

.50cal can penetrate front turret armor and destroy turret on PzIVH

.50cal can penetrate front hull armor and destroy bow MG on PzIVH

.50cal can penetrate concrete building and rubble it

[eddiek]

There are obvious flaws in the GV damage model, as you have proven here.
HT said in a reply to brady that the bullets either penetrate or not.  I'd like to see the MG bullets riccocheting off the armor personally.  Kind of a reminder of the futility of using an ineffective (supposed to be anyways) weapon to attack a heavily armored tank.

[Innominate]

It's funny how the open turret of the ostwind seems to be as durable as the armored turret of the panzer.

[brady]

Well done Hotland and TY for doing this. Is It me or is the Armor on the front of the PAnzer IV:

  Turet 50mm
  Hull 80mm

  Both sloped at at least 10 degrees

 Osty turet Armor is 16mm and sloped at 37 degrees.

 Now under only the most favorable conditions can a 50 cal theroticaly penatrate the to plating on these tanks which is 15 on the turet top, and 12 on the hull.

 How is that 50 cal round acheaving a penatration when it is physicialy imposable for it to so?

 The Osty turet is Open toped, rounds NOT coming from the TOP have to hit the sides of the turet and therefor have no chance of geting in, because they are not coming from above.Also the extream slope of the osty turet enhances it's efective armor thickness considerably.


    The Tracks on the Tanks are extreamly vulernable to MG fire, historical they were not, thats why they had steal tracks and not wheals:)

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by eddiek
There are obvious flaws in the GV damage model, as you have proven here.
HT said in a reply to brady that the bullets either penetrate or not.  I'd like to see the MG bullets riccocheting off the armor personally.  Kind of a reminder of the futility of using an ineffective (supposed to be anyways) weapon to attack a heavily armored tank.

Actually alot of the bullets do riccoschet (how do you spell that word anyway) off the armor. It's not like a 3 second burst with 7,92 will take out the turret of a Pz, it takes more like a 400 round burst.

[mauser]

Good job Hortlund, thx for taking the time and conducting a test.  These results make discussions a lot "cleaner."  

mauser

[Toad]

There ya go. That's all that's needed really, isn't it?

[hitech]

7.92mm MG can penetrate front turret armor and destroy turret on a PzIVH

Just wondering, do you meen the gun just stoped working? If so thats not a armor penitration.

[Hortlund]

The thing I'm calling turret penetration is when the turret turned red on the damage display, the tank started smoking and it was not possible to use the gun anymore.

[hitech]

Rgr just want to clarify,the main gun can be destroyed with out penitrating the turrent.

Same with the hull gun.

[Sandman]

Good info Hort. Thanx.

It's "ricochet."

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by hitech
Rgr just want to clarify,the main gun can be destroyed with out penitrating the turrent.

Same with the hull gun.

Oh, ok.
So what I'm seeing is not a penetration of the turret or hull armor, but rather a destruction of the main gun or bow mg?

[BenDover]

wait a sec!


how does a bullet take out the gun without penitrating, clog the barrel with red:rolleyes:


oh, and the hull gun CAN be taken out?

[brady]

OK, this seams a bit far fetched, I can See maybe a few rounds hitting the gun barel and damaging it, the MG gun barel, the Coax gun barel does not realy penatrat the gun mantel on the Panzer, so hitting it would be a 1000 to one shot.

 The MA on the Panzer 4 is being damaged how by MG fire?

 The tiny apature for the gun sight ( like 1 inch big) is taking a direct hit? and going into the tank? You mean like that sean in that Sniper movie whear the bulit goes through the scope and into his eye?

 In the pictures of German tank turets aranged around the inside of the turet( and the rest of the tank) are clips and boxes containg spare Vishion blocks( perescopes) and I beleave their are extrar sights for the bow and MA gun's.

  Hortland what of the rear armor facing have you done test on that?

  During MA engagements I have taken out Tank engines with the MG 34, how is this posable?

 Also what of the imobalazation issue by MG fire?

[SKurj]

Panzers also had a heavy mantle i believe it was called where the main gun met the turret usually with heavier armor than the rest of the turret,,

SKurj