Author Topic: Ta152H-1 vs. Temp (Read 1156 times)

F4UDOA · « **Reply #45 on:** August 15, 2002, 11:58:39 AM »

And one more.

All of these A/C were extremely overboosted.

150 octane fuel.

Vermillion · « **Reply #46 on:** August 15, 2002, 12:54:44 PM »

Ammo, like F4UDOA said, the P-47M or N is most comparable to the F4U-4. A very outstanding plane, but its at its best at medium to high altitudes.

The F2G has altitude characteristics most like the La7. Down low, it has incredible power (something like 3,600 hp if I remember right) which gives it the 400 mph SL speed and the 5,000+ ft/min climb speed, and incredible acceleration in what is basically the same airframe as the F4U-1D we already have. Which I personally consider to easily be the most manueverable of the BnZ aircraft in AH. But just like the La7, get it above 14,000ft (its critical altitude) and performance is going to suffer drastically. I would have to look at some charts, but I would guess above 20,000ft that the F4U-1D would outperform it. But in our main arena, it would make this the deadliest of the perk planes.

Grunherz, what you have heard is the "urban myth" of the F2G. Actually it was designed to fight a Japanese opponent in the PTO where rarely did the fights go above 15k, and 20k was considered extreme high altitude. Very similar to the altitudes and tactics used on the Eastern Front. This is the situation that the F2G was designed to fight in, and which it would excel at.

Like I said in my first post. The F8F did not kill the F2G, which most people don't realize that it did actually go into a limited production. The F4U-4/5 did ! It was the start of the jet age where altitude and speed at altitude were the defining features of fighter aircraft, and admittedly the F2G was exceedingly poor at this role. Just a few years later fighter combat operations over the Yalu were routinely at 35k-40k and just under the sound barrier.

But conversely the Bearcat and Tigercat also suffered from the same performance at altitude deficiencies (look at their critical altitudes on F4UDOA's chart) since they were designed to fight the same opponent that the F2G was. So I think its a better arguement that the F4U-4/5 actually killed the Bearcat !! . Seriously

Neil Stirling · « **Reply #47 on:** August 15, 2002, 02:05:55 PM »

Hi F4UDOA,
the tempest was using 150 grade fuel.

I have been researching 150 grade fuel at the PRO. All of ADGB was put on this fuel July 44 followed by the 2nd Tactical Airforce Circa Jan 45. The US 8th started with this fuel June 44 and the 9th date ? British based Spit LF IX,s were using this fuel by May 44.

Those charts you posted come from AVIA 6 10618, this found within the PRO's records by Mike Williams (Spit site) and collected from the PRO by me.

Does any one have Bearcat/P51H charts showing performance with 115/145 or 100/150 octane fuel and water injection?

Vermillion · « **Reply #48 on:** August 15, 2002, 03:12:30 PM »

Neil, I've yet to see any P-51H performance charts to date.

However, I've recently found this site which sells electronic copies of old flight manuals, which supposedly has the 1946 P-51H manual, along with the full performance charts.

I've just haven't gotten around to paying $20 for an electronic copy.

http://www.eflightmanuals.com/

If you end up getting a copy, I would love to see the charts.

Vermillion · « **Reply #49 on:** August 15, 2002, 03:19:52 PM »

Wow, I knew the P-51H was a "hot" plane, but here are excerpts from the manual thats in the public area of that website.

Specs of the P-51H-5-NA:

One Packard Merlin V-1650-9 twelve-cylinder Vee liquid cooled engine rated at 1380 hp for takeoff and a a war emergency power of 2218 hp at 10,200 feet and 1900 hp at 20,000 feet with water injection.

Performance: Maximum speed was 444 mph at 5000 feet, 463 mph at 15,000 feet, and 487 mph at 25,000 feet.

Range in clean condition was 755 miles at 359 mph at 10,000 feet, 1975 miles at 239 mph at 10,000 feet. Range with two 62.5 Imp. gall. drop tanks was 1150 miles at 339 mph at 10,000 feet and 1530 miles at 243 mph at 10,000 feet.

An altitude of 5000 feet could be reached in 1.5 minutes, 15,000 feet in 5 minutes.

Service ceiling was 41,600 feet. Weights: 6585 pounds empty, 9500 pounds normal loaded, and 11,500 pounds maximum. Dimensions: Wing span was 37 feet 0 inches, length was 33 feet 4 inches, height was 8 feet 10 inches, and wing area was 235 square feet.

Neil Stirling · « **Reply #50 on:** August 15, 2002, 05:13:11 PM »

Thanks Vermillion, I have E-mailed them, lets see what happens.
BTW I have information that puts the maximum speed of the Bearcat and Tigercat at over 420mph at SL

Hobodog · « **Reply #51 on:** August 15, 2002, 06:10:55 PM »

I say strip my bearcat of all weapons just fuel. Then i can just go around and fly people into the ground.

Vermillion · « **Reply #52 on:** August 16, 2002, 07:10:27 AM »

Just took a quick look at the P-51D speed vs altitude chart, if the P-51H supercharger is setup for the same critical altitudes and the data from that site is correct (I realize this is a big "if") you can interpolate a rough H model speed vs altitude chart, which the data would seem to support with just the eyeball. I didn't graph it in a spreadsheet or anything.

But, it would give the H model a speed at SL of about 430-435 mph. Very impressive.

Vector · « **Reply #53 on:** August 16, 2002, 12:09:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kevin14

Wrong, I kept up with a Temp in a 190-D9 at about 375mph wavetop height

Kevin, You should have ride 190D-9 at 375 mph at the deck with Tempest if Tempest ran outta wep and you didn't.
According to my tests at 9.5.02 offline with 25% fuel @ deck, the results:
MIL:
Tempest 372 mph
190D-9: 346 mph

WEP:
Tempest: 386 mph
190D-9: 375 mph

Anyway, when talking about Tempest vs. 190D-9 @ deck, Tempest should eat Dora alive, no doubt.
Tempest is a monster, but rarely seen due the perk price, it's wonderful fighter!
As Hristo said, Tempest is an E collecting monster!

-Vector

Wilbus · « **Reply #54 on:** August 16, 2002, 04:20:27 PM »

Just got home after another week away, and what do I see? A TA152 THREAD!!

I can start by saying that the TA152 we have in AH is undermodelled and that has been proven by me in several threads before but noone cares so just forget about that for now.

However, the Tempest MkV was, and is suposed to be faster then the TA152H-0 and H-1 down low, that's a proven fact and I've got german reports aswell as brittish reports that say the tempest was faster so there's really no points discussing it anymore, whatever sources you have are wrong.
The TA152H-1 had it's top speed at 41,000 feet, speed was 472mph with WEP (GM1 power boosting).
At the deck it had a top speed of around 360mph, Tempest had around 380mph at the deck.

Another thing, the TA152 had a TERRIFIC climb rate as wasa often described by the pilots who flew it, they reported outclimbing "friendly" 109's (the 109's thought the TA152's were some new allied planes DUH!). They escaped by outmaneuvering and outclimbing. I can give you the climb figures again some time but not now, they were around 21 meters/second (109 K4 had about 23m/s) which means it is a bit undermodelled in climb rate aswell but it is NOT undermodelled in deck speed.

-ammo- · « **Reply #55 on:** August 16, 2002, 06:08:59 PM »

verm, that P-51H is a monster.

Here's a couple of stats to chew on as well. While, the M's speed stats dont compare with the p-51H, its still impressive.

(published numbers, not the test AC data which was even more impressive).

the P-47M climbed to 15K in 4.9 minutes.

the P-47M equiped with the -57 P&W engines regularly reached speeds of 480 MPH.