Author Topic: F4F-4  (Read 889 times)

Offline whels

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F4F-4
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2002, 10:16:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
F4Fs and FM-2s are good eatins!

-- Todd/Leviathn






hehe u havent meet my FM2. last tour i was 197 and 27 in FM2.
only bird i fear in it is the a6m2. i think they put  4 F6  50cals in it, them 4 50s got more punch then most 6 or 8 50cal planes.


whels

Offline Ossie

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« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2002, 10:19:19 AM »
The FM-2 has become my favorite fighter for defense. The only thing I have trouble with is that the four .50s don't provide much hitting power. Other than the armament issue, I haven't had the urge to try the F4F-4. I just see both of the names and I see two dogs, only one those dogs comes without a leash :) Outright, I would honestly prefer an F4F-3 for the lighter frame (another 4-gun bird, for some odd reason my favorite rides are the P-51B and FM-2, and if I take up a P-51D it's usually with the 4-gun loadout, and here I am wanting the F4F-3 over the F-4, all the while mentioning the "trouble" that four .50s have given me :confused: ). Maybe I'll check out the F-4 for a change and see what I can do with those two extra guns.

Offline Widewing

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« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2002, 11:58:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by whels






hehe u havent met my FM2. last tour i was 197 and 27 in FM2.
only bird i fear in it is the a6m2. i think they put  4 F6  50cals in it, them 4 50s got more punch then most 6 or 8 50cal planes.


whels


That's a great score Whels. These are some baaad airplanes! And, talk about the killing power of those guns; the F4F-4 is pretty impressive too. The other evening I shot down 2 Lancs and three Ju 88s, and still had 1/3 of my ammo remaining with which, I later dispatched a Hellcat and Corsair.

Another feature of sorts; the Wildcats can stay ariborne for what seems like forever on 75% fuel.

Zeros? Target practice......

My regards,

Widewing
« Last Edit: August 13, 2002, 12:03:42 PM by Widewing »
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline J_A_B

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« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2002, 01:49:52 PM »
The FM2's performance doesn't surprise me at all.   The Navy DID consider it its best dogfighter for under 10,000 feet, even superior to the F8F in this regard.   I hope more people start flying them; variety is always a good thing.  

(this is also why I hope to see a Ki-84 or Ki-61-II added....planes that'll see a lot of MA usage)

J_A_B

Offline plumbob

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« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2002, 10:25:45 PM »
Strangely enogh, i find the fm2/f4f one of the few planes i shy away from fighting with.  And one of the only planes that can consistently kill my hurricane

Offline whgates3

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« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2002, 01:32:38 AM »
Dnil -
http://www.aviation-history.com
claims the P-61 "credited with 239 German aircraft destroyed and another 209 probables; none lost to enemy action" - several other sites claim ETO totals for the P-61 as 127 confirmed, 18 of which were V1s - cant find totals for PTO/CBI, still have not found one record of a combat loss of a P-61, however combat losses of lone-wolf night fighters would tend not to have witnesses. i did read several instances of 'took off on operation never to return...'
http://www.geocities.com/mep1100/conquering_the_night.pdf
may shed some light on the situation, but i haven't finished reading it yet...do you have any good P-61 sources?


Offline brady

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« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2002, 03:26:54 AM »
I have an osprey book on the P 61, it is not with me at the moment howeaver, good info on the planes and their action's in Europe and the Pacific.

 I recall the book saying that It is beleaved some of the P 61's lost in action were from raming their targets on accedent, or geting caught up in the debries after their target blew up.

Offline HeLLcAt

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« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2002, 03:34:15 AM »
F4F & FM2 suck. F6F beats them all. I can b and zoom F4F & FM2 all day in my Hellcat. I am not saying F4F & FM2 suck totally...they are very good for base defense. I think F6F is an all around better plane. Can stick with the faster planes in a dive...can outturn a niki if executed correctly and can b n z a niki or spit. All! I am sure Mathman would agree w/ me on this one!

~BlueiceJ~

Offline whgates3

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« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2002, 04:40:12 AM »
well the F6F was the next generation in that line of fighters, were a great plane - of course they're faster, but where were they in 1942? (answer: they were parts on a factory floor)

Offline Widewing

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« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2002, 08:53:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by HeLLcAt
F4F & FM2 suck. F6F beats them all. I can b and zoom F4F & FM2 all day in my Hellcat. I am not saying F4F & FM2 suck totally...they are very good for base defense. I think F6F is an all around better plane. Can stick with the faster planes in a dive...can outturn a niki if executed correctly and can b n z a niki or spit. All! I am sure Mathman would agree w/ me on this one!

~BlueiceJ~


I like the Hellcat, and I fly it frequently. However, I do not worry about them one whit when flying an FM-2. Why? Because, the F6F has a singular advantage over the Wildcat, as opposed to several significant disadvantages. Speed is important, but is easily negated by your opponent having an altitude advantage. Moreover, the speed advantage of the Hellcat is not substantial. Indeed, the gap between the P-51D and Hellcat is greater. If we wish to talk about strict BnZ tactics, the Mustang can abuse the F6F with relative ease. Wildcats have a much more difficult time with P-51s than they do with Hellcats. But, put an inexperienced or simply inept pilot in the faster aircraft and my money is on the slow, more maneuverable bird every time. I have no data to support this, but it seems to me that the FM-2 accelerates faster from low speeds than the Hellcat too.

It should be noted that the FM-2 climbs just as well as the F6F, and does so at a greater angle. Whether you realize it or not, that is significant. While the F6F climbs at the same rate, it still cannot follow the FM-2 without stalling (assuming both start the climb Co-E). Turn rate: There’s no comparison, Wildcats turn circles around Hellcats. Roll rate is similar, but the FM-2 has much greater rudder authority, and rudder input dramatically improves roll rate at some sacrifice to airspeed.

As forgiving as the Hellcat’s stall characteristics are, the Wildcats are better. Upon entering an accelerated stall, the Wildcats simply mush, whereas the Hellcat tends towards a rapid drop of the wing, almost a snap roll. One other factor that I feel is significant is size. Hellcats are big targets, Wildcats are diminutive in comparison, and harder to hit. Both are built like a brick chithouse, able to survive hits that would bring a Buff down.

My experience flying Wildcats causes me to prefer them over the F6F. So far this tour, I have shot down 6 Hellcats, 3 each in the FM-2 and F4F-4, for no losses. And in nearly every case, the Hellcats had an altitude and speed advantage at the outset of the engagement. What does that indicate? If you waste your E while fighting Wildcats, you will very likely die.

You see, most pilots lack the patience and discipline to use BnZ tactics correctly. After several ineffective passes, the majority of pilots start pulling harder turns to get the shot in. Before long, they’ve surrendered their E advantage, and consequently find themselves in deep bandini. When you have the level of success I have had with the Wildcat, it’s hard to find a reason to fault the little monster.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline thrila

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« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2002, 09:41:54 AM »
I personally consider the Fm2 & F4F's performance so poor i rarely ever attack them.  I always go for the con that i believe is more of a threat to me-  unless the FM2/F4F is higher than me it isn't a threat.

Above 10k the spit1 is faster and climbs better than both of them and at 5k the peformance is very close- thats how poor their performance is lol! :D
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Something like it's elder brother-
Wing tips rounded, spinner's bigger.
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Offline Widewing

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« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2002, 12:02:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by thrila
I personally consider the Fm2 & F4F's performance so poor i rarely ever attack them.  I always go for the con that i believe is more of a threat to me-  unless the FM2/F4F is higher than me it isn't a threat.

Above 10k the spit1 is faster and climbs better than both of them and at 5k the peformance is very close- thats how poor their performance is lol! :D


So, you're saying that you avoid attacking Wildcats because they're just too easy to kill?!

Yeah, right. Do you avoid Goons for the same reason?

Poor performance eh? Then explain how a no-talent duffer like me manages this.....

This tour to date:

Widewing has 2 kills and has been killed 0 times in the FM2 against the Spitfire Mk I.

Widewing has 4 kills and has been killed 0 times in the FM2 against the Spitfire V

Widewing has 11 kills and has been killed 1 time in the FM2 against the Spitfire Mk IX.

Widewing has 1 kill and has been killed 0 times in the F4F-4 against the Spitfire V.

Widewing has 37 kills and has been killed 1 time in the F4F-4.

Widewing has 132 kills and has been killed 25 times in the FM2.

If I were you, I'd absolutely continue to avoid Wildcats, especially mine. :D

Seriously, you deserve credit for flying those early-war Spits and Hurris in the MA. It's not easy to stay alive and actually keep a decent K/D in them.

My regards,

Widewing

PS: Yes Robsan, I am posting my score again... :rolleyes:
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Dead Man Flying

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« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2002, 12:59:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by whels
hehe u havent meet my FM2. last tour i was 197 and 27 in FM2.


On the contrary... your FM2 has never met my Spit.  :D

-- Todd/Leviathn

Offline Widewing

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« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2002, 01:42:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying


On the contrary... your FM2 has never met my Spit.  :D

-- Todd/Leviathn


Yes it has, but it was a no-decision as we both had interlopers to deal with. ;) We were maneuvering for advantage when some would be opportunist tried to blindside you. Meanwhile, a Niki made a run on me.

I know it was you, 'cause when you killed the guy he said, "Aw toejam, that was Leviathn!"

I killed the Niki, but have no illusions that he said, "Aw toejam, that was Widewing!" :D

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Angus

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« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2002, 01:48:12 PM »
Think I have to take that FM-2 vs Spit turning issue to the Training arena...
My money is on the Spitfire, well definately Spit I and SpitV, and also the Hurricane.
However, FM-2 has been largely underestimated in AH, and when flying it I find that my foes show me less respect than when I am in the Spit. They pay for that with bullet holes of course:D
The tubby little thing is practically a Spitfire in disguise, but when are you ever gonna hear "wildcat dweeb"...naaa
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)