Do we "have" to have the UDP switch?

[Apache]

Everytime I get the "Lost UDP session, switching to TCP" message, I get a constant high pitched hum in my headset, get a beacon and hardlock. I also get 2 MS Sidewinder gamepads, which I don't even have, added to my controllers panel.

For the BBS police, I've put this in Bug Forum several times. Just curious as to what some of the net gurus' opinions may be.

[AKWeav]

Hmmm, I usually just get booted shortly thereafter. Just goes to show you, no matter how bad you think you have it, someone else is getting it worse.

[Vulcan]

Take the ethernet cable out of your nose dude.

[Hortlund]

If I remember correctly, the UDP switch was implemented by HTC to remove the invisible planes issue.

[Vulcan]

Bzzzzt wrong you ARE the weakest link

AH uses two protocols to send and receive your data over the net, UDP and TCP.

UDP is fire and forget, it sends the packet and doesn't bother to check if its received at your end. If you're chasing a guy and you getting updates to his position 1... 2... 3... 5... whoops 4 got dropped, AH interpolates between 3 and 5, and carries on like nothing happened.

TCP is number it, fire it, check it was received, if not send that number again. Same situation, your chasing that guy get updated to his positon, 1... 2... 3.... 5.... whoops dropped 4 resend it .... 4... 6... 7... get the picture? Thats why TCP warpers sorta do the two steps forward one step back dance every now and then.

AH tries to use UDP by default. Two reasons stop it, the first and most common: either a NAT'd device (router) connecting you to the internet or a firewall. The second, your internet connection sux, this is when you see the Switching to TCP message midgame - the MA has decided you've been to cheap to fork out for DSL because to many UDP packets are being lost and switches you to TCP mode.

If you use a router or firewall, you need to map port 1999-3000ish directly to the PC you play AH on.

Also worth noting, AH voice works exclusively on UDP and this is why only one PC behind a router can receive Voice.

Someone needs to keep Zeroping away from Apaches water.

Originally posted by Hortlund
If I remember correctly, the UDP switch was implemented by HTC to remove the invisible planes issue.

[AKIron]

Originally posted by Vulcan

If you use a router or firewall, you need to map port 1999-3000ish directly to the PC you play AH on.

Also worth noting, AH voice works exclusively on UDP and this is why only one PC behind a router can receive Voice.
 

Not necessarily the case. I have a DLink 804 Gateway/Firewall/Router and my UDP and AHVoice work fine with the default router config. I also receive voice to more than one PC on my private IP's but haven't tried transmitting on more than one.

[J_A_B]

AKWeav states what happens to me too.    The "Switching to TCP" message might as well say "You will be booted soon" since I never last more than 2 minutes after the switch.  

I like it though; if I know when I'm gonna be booted it at least lowers the frustration level somewhat.  

J_A_B

[Vulcan]

You probably have a router that tries to do auto-UDP mapping. IE it learns on the fly, hence its the exception to the rule  However historically this type router has been 'dodgey'. Like any computer device left to learn by itself they often cause wierd stuff, which is why not many routers do this.

Also worth noting, the unit is NOT a firewall if it is allowing UDP traffic in unsolicited with its a default config.

Come to think of it, mebbe AHVoice switches to TCP too. Mebbe HT can confirm how Voice works?

Have you had any wierd stuff happen?

Originally posted by AKIron


Not necessarily the case. I have a DLink 804 Gateway/Firewall/Router and my UDP and AHVoice work fine with the default router config. I also receive voice to more than one PC on my private IP's but haven't tried transmitting on more than one.

[AKIron]

AHVoice does work after I'm switched to TCP. Does that mean AHVoice then uses TCP? I don't know.

Mine is a firewall if for no other reason than it is doing NAT (could be PAT, I don't know). However, I think it is examining packets as well.

To answer your question, no weirdness, works great.

[Vulcan]

NAT <> Firewall

Especially when its allowing UDP traffic through without mappings. Your legs are spread to the internet. Some script kiddies could have a great time with you.

Basically your Dlink is assuming inbound UDP/TCP traffic from sites you have 'talked' too is OK, and maps it thru to your PC regardless.

Not very secure.

Originally posted by AKIron
AHVoice does work after I'm switched to TCP. Does that mean AHVoice then uses TCP? I don't know.

Mine is a firewall if for no other reason than it is doing NAT (could be PAT, I don't know). However, I think it is examining packets as well.

To answer your question, no weirdness, works great.

[jconradh]

I would disagree with you Vulcan.  My Netgear router does not have DMZ enabled and both my brother and I played last week and heard vox.  Not only that I connected via UDP, and I did not run port forwarding.  Only time I need to forward is if I setup a H2H server on my dual cpu rig and ask my brother to fly via web with me on it.

Regards,

Jeff

[AKIron]

Originally posted by jconradh
I would disagree with you Vulcan.  My Netgear router does not have DMZ enabled and both my brother and I played last week and heard vox.  Not only that I connected via UDP, and I did not run port forwarding.  Only time I need to forward is if I setup a H2H server on my dual cpu rig and ask my brother to fly via web with me on it.

Regards,

Jeff

Same here, can't run H2H without port mapping.

I think UDP is translated via NAT same as TCP. Many firewalls disable UDP by default but not all and those that do still allow you to enable UDP without (IMO) dramatically compromising security.

[koala]

Position packets are fine for UDP, but I sure hope the gun packets aren't sent via UDP, unless there's a sequence tag associated with them for re-transmisison.

[Fariz]

For me that "problem solve" created more problems than solved. I heard about invinsible planes, but never saw them, or never were in one. In contrast, UDP/TCP switch spoil couple sortie every day, I have to rtb and land, because flying with TCP is warpy for me.

What I wonder, if it is possible for system to detect if connect is ok now, and after some time switch back to UDP again? If it is impossible during flight, may be it is possible to do on runway, during refuel?

Fariz

[Vulcan]

You can disagree with me but you'd be wrong.

Its basic networking 101.
UDP is a sessionless protocol.
TCP is a session based protocol.

When you create a session its like a handshake initiated by you. IE, You say I want to talk to HTC, your router gets HTC on the line and says Bob wants to talk, HTC says ok I'll talk - bingo a session is created. NAT devices recognise this.

UDP on the other hand does not establish any sessions. So the NAT device has to ASSUME that if there has been traffic from Bob to HTC that UDP traffic coming back from HTC is for Bob. It also sounds like some routers do a UDP broadcast on the internal network (ie the voice traffic is being repeated as a broadcast to the private IPs). Initially this method was flakey in the early years, but its stabilized.

Of course its still like opening your legs to the Internet, instead of having a small range of ports open you have your entire arse bared.

No decent or business router does this because its considered flakey and extremely insecure.

DMZ is not really relevant, thats usually another segment hanging of an additional ethernet port and with a public IP, not a private IP.

Originally posted by jconradh
I would disagree with you Vulcan.  My Netgear router does not have DMZ enabled and both my brother and I played last week and heard vox.  Not only that I connected via UDP, and I did not run port forwarding.  Only time I need to forward is if I setup a H2H server on my dual cpu rig and ask my brother to fly via web with me on it.

Regards,

Jeff