Hurricane IIc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yeeeeeesssss!

[Thrawn]

I can't believe it's being suggested that one of the most out of date planes, at the beginning of the war, be perked.

[Karnak]

Tac,

A quick comparison of the Hurricane MkIIc and F4U-1C, or, why not to perk the Hurricane:

Top Speed:
Hurricane MkIIc: 334mph at 21,000ft.
F4U-1C Corsair: 417mph at 20,000ft.

Speed at Sea Level:
Hurricane MkIIc: Less than 290mph
F4U-1C Corsair: 360mph

Climb Rate:
Hurricane MkIIc: 2,780 ft./Min.
F4U-1C Corsair: 3,100 ft./Min.

Roll Rate:
Hurricane MkIIc: Poor
F4U-1C Corsair: Very good

Acceleration:
Hurricane MkIIc: Very Poor
F4U-1C Corsair: Poor

Fuel Endurance:
Hurricane MkIIc: 460 miles on internal fuel
F4U-1C Corsair: 1,015 miles on internal fuel

Armament:
Hurricane MkIIc: 4 Hispano MkII cannon, 2 in each wing
F4U-1C Corsair: 4 Hispano MkII cannon, 2 in each wing

Ammunition Load:
Hurricane MkIIc: 364 rounds total, 91 rounds per gun
F4U-1C Corsair: 924 rounds total, 232 rounds per inboard gun and 230 rounds per outboard gun

Ordinance:
Hurricane MkIIc: 2 250lb bombs or 8 60lb rockets or 2 44 imp. gal. drop tanks
F4U-1C Corsair: 2 1000lb bombs and 4 60lb rockets or 150 gal. drop tanks in place of the bombs

Service Entry:
Hurricane MkIIc: 1941
F4U-1C Corsair: 1945

Still want to perk the Hurricane MkIIc?

[AN]

Sorry, but I'm so enthusaistic about getting the Hurricane, I just gotta...

First, to set the mood...

"Our Squadron escorted twelve Hurri-bombers to Dieppe this morning at first light. . . . We all flew at sea level the entire mission.  We took them in through flak that cannot be described.  When you are within 100 feet of those big guns firing, concussion tosses you about to a large degree.  There were hundreds of planes screaming through the sky.  Dozens of dog fights going on.  Planes plummeting to earth on fire.  Pilots who had been shot down were in their dinghies.  I saw nine or ten Spitfires just shooting hell out of a Jerry Dornier.  We fought off attacks on the Hurricanes, but four were shot down by the shore batteries.  We were attacked twice more by Messerschmitt 109's as we crossed back out over the coast of France.  I got strikes on a Messerschmitt 109, but I was flying about 50 feet off the water and couldn't maneuver to finish him off.  Three of our Spitfires were so badly shot up they were out of the fight, but did manage to fly back to England." - from American Pilots in the RAF by Philip D. Caine

Then...

"For the final sortie of the day we were told that the convoy was withdrawing and the many gun batteries were the prime objective.  I was flying my own Hurricane IIC BP707 and my Number 2 was Pilot Officer G. Dodson RAAF in a twelve gun IIB.  As we crossed the coast to the west of Dieppe we were bounced by FW190s and forced to take violent evasive action which split the squadron into small sections.  With my Number 2, I headed for some flashes on the edge of a wood to the south-west of Dieppe and saw a battery of field guns -- probably 88mm's.  We flew a wide circuit to attack north to south across the guns and approached at maximum throttle -- Pilot Officer Dodson on my starboard side.  We both had the satisfaction of seeing our cannon and machine-gun bullets detonating on the guns and scattering the gunners.

"It was too good to last -- the inevitable light flak appeared from the right and my Hurricane was mortally hit.  Oil and glycol smoke poured from the engine which I was unable to nurse as the throttle linkage was shot away.  I broke to the right heading for the coast and flew through the twelve guns firing from Pilot Officer Dodson's Hurricane.  He had a perfect cine film to prove it.  At high speed and at tree-top height I reached the coast where the engine died with a great thud.  I eased the aircraft up to about 600 feet, shedding hood and right side panel on the way, bailing out as the stall approached.  The jerk of my parachute opening was a relief but I was puzzled by the smoke under the canopy until I realised that tracer bullets were the cause.  Within a few seconds I was in the sea about 500 yards from the cliffs.  I got rid of my parachute harness and boots and set off for England with a steady side stroke, dragging my dinghy in its unopened pack and encouraged by the zipp of bullets in the sea around me." -- from The Greatest Air Battle : Dieppe, 19th August 1942 by Norman L.R. Franks

anRky

[Tac]

we'll see what the masses do with yet another 4 hispano bird..one that will turn better even. I predict it will go the way of the chog, 50% fuel and HO bird and field defense.

I love the 12 X.303 option. Always wanted one.  

[GRUNHERZ]

Im just worried about it being used as a HO machine.

The Hurricane was known to be durable and if so modeled will be very much used as HO type of plane as it doesnt do much very well except turn.

This IS NOT some LW vs Allied drama, everyone can fly all the planes.

All Im worried about is the HO thing, otherwise the Hurricane is an interesting addition.

I think it will do rather well considering the turn/furball nature of the MA.


As for Me262, who cares, it will be very expensive and will be flown very conservativly. Plus if its correctly modeled it will have terrible acceleration and relativly poor manuverability.

[Toad]

1. If worried about the HO, don't accept the HO. You have a stick and rudders too.

2. HO's were not an unusual tactic; there is historical precedent. Will post an account of a -51 v -109 fite by the -51 pilot that is currently in Air Classics if you'd like. The -109 HO'd him several times.. but once too often. Nice short read, btw.

The Hurri isn't going to be the oft predicted end of the world either. Relax.

[1776]

PERK IT!!!

I was the first to say it

[-ammo-]

Originally posted by Tac:
dont like to have another CHOG on the game. Let em make 2 entries on the game, the 12X .303 as non perked and the chogspanno armed one as a cheap perk.

If you thought chog was bad, wait till this slow, highly manouverable, dime-turning plane points and click kills you.

Gawd AH definetely is a double edged sword.

That has to be the dumbest idea tac. The Hurri is a very slow AC. If you are getting killed by it, then its your fault, change your style of flying.

[ 08-11-2001: Message edited by: -ammo- ]

[Fatty]

I'm going to HO in both the 262 and the hurricane.  Fair warning.

[Karnak]

Tac,

Its got 90 rounds per gun.  That is a whole Typhoon's ammo load less than the F4U-1C does.

Who would anyone spend perk points on an under ammoed death trap?

The 12 .303 version was despised by the RAF pilots.  They removed the outer guns to get the manuverability back.  8, or even 12, .303s would be a joke in AH.  You see a .303 aremed Hurricane less often than you see C.202s.

[ 08-11-2001: Message edited by: Karnak ]

[Animal]

Why would you have to worry about the damn Hurricane pilots RUINING the game with Head-On attacks, when you can do the same thing RIGHT NOW in a Typhoon, with much more ammo?

Really, if you get killed by a damn Hurricane (I.E: A piece of junk with four big cannons) you are a toejamTY pilot.

You probably get killed by Il-2s all the time too?

[StSanta]

RAF gets the oldest, slowest fighter in the game. Luftwaffe gets the fastest, only jet jet fighter in the game.
Luftwaffles whine about RAF plane

Heh, ok I hear ya on the LWhiner bit. Let me say that this isn't a LW vs RAF issue for me. I'll try to explain.

Personally, I couldn't care a rat's arse about something that can go in a straight line very fast and will be quite disruptive to a buff or a fighter, in the unlikely event that it isn't spotted. I don't care for being untouchable. For me, it's action that counts. The 190A5 is more fun to me than the D9 because it forces me to use SA and ACM to get out of tight spots; in the D9 what I usually need to do is nose down and dive away.

The ME262 will be largely like the TA-152 I suspect. Hugely expensive, and the bang for the buck in terms of perk points will be rather limited. It'll be an annoyance for most, sort of like the occasional tempest is now, only it'll be rarer and not near as lethal (if you're in a fighter).

Now, it's known that the LW had the potential to have the Hispano cannon, but opted for something else. had the LW been given a slow fighter that could turn and had quad damage laser pods (i.e 4*hisp) I'd voice these exact concerns.

We know what happened with the tshjook. The tiffie was also quite popular til its roll rate got fixed, despite not being as lethal as the tshjook (I recall some threads on bullet dispersion or whatnot being the difference). The icon system we have gives an advantage to guns with great ballistics; with the range info there's little need to use a gunsight to estimate the distance to an enemy aircraft - it greatly aids long range shooting.

I think it's fair to say that the thsjook was popular for newbies because it was one of those planes newbies could actually kill in. In H's, those great Hispanos allowed them to open up at long ranges, and the hitting power means that usually 1-2 hits on a wingtip is enough (been there, tried it, will redo it and film if necessary  ). With 4 cannons, it's spewing out a veritable wall of AP/HE/I (all at once, in every bullet).

It's not just HO's. It's also the "break" followed by a very long range spray n pray shot and the *lethality* of such shots.

I'll manage it. I'll get annoyed from time to time but my current thinking of AH has given me a relaxed attitude towards these things in general  . I'm sure I'll write a whine or two after the heat of combat when the frustration has built up - most in here have a competitive nature.

Yet I have to say that the perking of the thsjook was one of the best moves by HTC I've seen - all of the sudden the D-hog gained life, and the price of the tshjook was cheap enough for anyone to earn one in one or two flights. And I *don't* wanna perk a 193x plane.

I guess what I'm saying is: 4*hisp turns most pilots into dweebs once they lay their hands on 'um. Myself included; in the special events where I've flown Spitfires, I've made good use of the dweeb tactics a Spit can use, and I earned a good number of kills that way  .

It's not my job to police how other people are flying and I won't do that. These are just my thoughts on the subject: right now I find AH very enjoyable, more so than when the chog was unperked, and I don't wanna have the same "oh no hispanos" dread again.

Thanks for info on the Hurricane II btw; didn't know it was a fighter-bomber. Am I correct in understanding from your posts that this one will be somewhat different in flight characteristics than the 12*303 model that was used vs fighters in the BoB?

Numbers wise, how many of these hurricanes were there compared to the other kind of Hurri's?

[SOB]

From Complete Book of WWII Combat Aircraft:

3,100 Hurricane Mk.IIb (12 7.7mm Browning mgs)
3,400 Hurricane Mk.IIc (4 20mm Oerlikon/Hispano cannons)
800 Hurricane Mk.IId (4 40mm Vickers or Rolls-Royce cannons, plus 1 or 2 7.7mm mgs to facilitate the aim of the principal weapons)

I don't vouch for the validity of the data, just telling ya what the book says  


SOB

[Tac]

Wake up guys, I never said the plane was in equal or in good standing vs. the other planes. I just said it is a great turner WITH 4 hispano cannons. Just THINK about that for a second.


My grandpa flew the 12 X.303 in BOB and later on the spitfire, he still liked the Hurricane better. Im biased? Perhaps  

[Westy MOL]

"Im just worried about it being used as a HO machine."

So what. What makes this plane different? I see more than half the pilots I merge with go for the HO shot and it hasn't mattered if it was in the MA or the new CA. Simply put? Pilots HO. Planes don't  


 THANKS anarky for that post! Reminds me a bit of Afrika'42    Even though you were in a 109 in that  

  Westy