Author Topic: Hurricane IIc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yeeeeeesssss! (Read 2128 times)

Toad · « **Reply #45 on:** August 12, 2001, 09:34:00 AM »

ROFL Cobra!

Ding, as a historical aside, check this page. Shows about 19 kills of F4's by MiG-17. Looks pretty good, but who knows for sure.
http://home.sprynet.com/~anneled/usloss.html

...and from the History Channel

Air-to-Air Kill / Loss Ratio:

Service/ ( From 1965 to March 31,1968 )/ 1972 on

U.S. Navy/ 3.7 to 1 / 12.5 to 1

Air Force/ 3 to 1 / ~4 to 1

The ONLY thing the Hurri has going for it is the guns and only 90 rounds in those. It can't run away, it can't climb away, it can't dive away, it can't outroll very much at all. In short, it can't dictate the fight; therefore it's mostly a target, especially considering the rest of the current planeset.

What it can do is whack you hard if YOU make a mistake. It isn't going to rule the world; not even close.

Nashwan · « **Reply #46 on:** August 12, 2001, 09:44:00 AM »

Toad is right. The Hurri and the Spits are good planes for begginers because they're easy to fly. It's very hard to get a kill against a good pilot in one though.
Look at the stats for the better pilots in AH, and you will find almost all of them do considerably better against the Spit IX than they do on average. If yopu're getting killed by the Spit too often, and if you think the Hurricane is a real threeat, it's your skills at fault, not the plane or even your opponent.

whels · « **Reply #47 on:** August 12, 2001, 10:40:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Fatty:
I'm going to HO in both the 262 and the hurricane. Fair warning.

OH yes please HO me in ur 262 pretty please

. illl listen to perk points burn
as the 262 plumets burning to the ground. the 262 has short range 30mm, u go HO longer range 50s or hispanos? lol please
come HO with ur 262.

Staga · « **Reply #48 on:** August 12, 2001, 11:12:00 AM »

nm

[ 08-12-2001: Message edited by: Staga ]

Steven · « **Reply #49 on:** August 12, 2001, 11:14:00 AM »

<<<And the MiG-17's still wreaked havoc on the American planes with superior turning and superior guns?>>>

I think "wreaked havoc" is overstating things by a lot. The US had aerial superiority in the skies over NVN and the MiGs were never really able to turn back the strikes. Sure, the MiGs had some holding patterns where they were vectored for sneak attacks when able and at times were successful. However, many times the MiGs were hurt badly only to stand down and think about new tactics, but in general, any time they came up in force the MiGs were dealt with. Yes, they were a threat, but they never "wreaked havoc."

-Puke
332nd Flying Mongrels

Sorry to take this off topic. I could've gone on-and-on about it but refrained.

Fatty · « **Reply #50 on:** August 12, 2001, 12:04:00 PM »

Don't worry whels, I got the points to spare

Urchin · « **Reply #51 on:** August 12, 2001, 12:17:00 PM »

Actually, the folks saying the Hizookas are the great equalizers are telling the truth. It isn't very tough to look up the stats on the F4U-1C and the F4U-1D. Look up the stats on it, I'm to lazy to. Same plane, it handles the same, etc. Only difference is the 4 Hizookas vs the 6 .50s. I know in my case, I'm usually at least 2 to 1 in K/D against the D version, but against the C I'm lucky to get 1 to 2. Wonder why that is?

Karnak · « **Reply #52 on:** August 12, 2001, 01:01:00 PM »

Well, I guess its only OK if the RAF planeset gets things without Hispanos. Given that the Hispano is the main RAF fighter gun of WWII I guess the RAF should only have Hurricane Is, Hurricane IIas, Hurricane IIbs, Spitfire Ias, Spitfire IIas, Spitfire Vas, Defiant Is, Defiant IIs and Typhoon Ias.

That would solve the mythical 600 yard snapshot problem. Hell, it'd solve the "RAF planes can shoot anything down" problem too.

-duma- · « **Reply #53 on:** August 12, 2001, 01:12:00 PM »

Oh, the Hurricane II. That brings back some fond memories of Warbirds H2H

Clearly it's going to be unbalancing though.

Kieran · « **Reply #54 on:** August 12, 2001, 01:27:00 PM »

My word!

How many of you hypocrites in here will admit you are simultaneously against anything with Hispanos but FOR the Me262?

One-on-one just about anything can beat a Hurricane (short of a C47). Do you know what planes like the La7 and G10 will do to it? How can you guys wring your hands in such angst?

So it turns, big deal. Zeros turn, too. Zeros die in all but the most capable hands. Hurricanes will die. The ammo is lethal but little and will be gone in a snuff (though the smarter guys will only use one bank at a time).

A Hurri caught in a fight is in big trouble once the numbers begin to go against it. There will be no escape from pilots that have the slightest clue about how to stay above it.

All the speculation is subjective 'til we have it, but I cannot imagine how people who don't fear the Spit will have any trepidation over a Hurri.

[ 08-12-2001: Message edited by: Kieran ]

Kieran · « **Reply #55 on:** August 12, 2001, 01:29:00 PM »

double post

[ 08-12-2001: Message edited by: Kieran ]

DingHao2 · « **Reply #56 on:** August 12, 2001, 02:59:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad:
Ding, as a historical aside, check this page. Shows about 19 kills of F4's by MiG-17. Looks pretty good, but who knows for sure.
http://home.sprynet.com/~anneled/usloss.html

...and from the History Channel

Air-to-Air Kill / Loss Ratio:

Service/ ( From 1965 to March 31,1968 )/ 1972 on

U.S. Navy/ 3.7 to 1 / 12.5 to 1

Air Force/ 3 to 1 / ~4 to 1

The ONLY thing the Hurri has going for it is the guns and only 90 rounds in those. It can't run away, it can't climb away, it can't dive away, it can't outroll very much at all. In short, it can't dictate the fight; therefore it's mostly a target, especially considering the rest of the current planeset.

What it can do is whack you hard if YOU make a mistake. It isn't going to rule the world; not even close.

Americans had good training in Vietnam. Vietnamese didn't. Hell, in a bird w/ Hispanos that can turn and HO great, it don't take no stinkin brains or ACM to get a kill. Point and shoot. Simple as that. And if u RAF fans think it's so bad, then y do u want it in the first place??!!

Kieran · « **Reply #57 on:** August 12, 2001, 03:12:00 PM »

Ding-

Put up your list of what you think your side needs and what the RAF needs.

Compare the list. Compare the year of entrance for all the equipment. Compare the performance specs. Do they even remotely match up?

The RAF want the Hurri because it represents one of the most important and prolific fighters for the RAF. It was a plane used in every theatre and every possible role for a single-engined fighter. Its contribution and impact on the war is immense. There is no denying a Hurricane in any sim that prides itself in WWII orientation. It is definitely not because it outperforms anything beyond 1939-40.

The Hurri can't HO you if you don't put yourself where he can do it to you. You can so easily stay above its head and pick your moment I can't see how you might think otherwise. No ACM skill required? hehe, that's funny. The Hurricane pilot better be very skilled in ACM, because the cards are stacked heavily against it.

Ding, are you for the 262 by any chance? How do you justify it BTW? (Sorry Karnak, just have to make the point.)

Dowding · « **Reply #58 on:** August 12, 2001, 03:18:00 PM »

Quote

Hell, in a bird w/ Hispanos that can turn and HO great, it don't take no stinkin brains or ACM to get a kill. Point and shoot.

I'm sorry, but you are in severe danger of talking out of your backside.

The hurricane turns 'great'?. Compared to what exactly?

Meanwhile, the sensible adversary extends (in just about anything), while gaining height most probably and then returns at a height from which he dictate the battle. It will be toast in the MA.

Matched against an historical planeset, however, I'm sure it will fair much better. Which I guess is the reason why it has been included.

Toad · « **Reply #59 on:** August 12, 2001, 03:31:00 PM »

Sorry, Ding, I'm not following your logic here.

1st post:

"Remember the F-4 vs. MiG-17 matchup in Vietnam? Slower, older MiG's vs. faster, newer Phantom II's? And the MiG-17's still wreaked havoc on the American planes with superior turning and superior guns?"

(Interject kill ratios showing that the US had at least a 3/1 K/D that improved significantly after guns were added to F-4's and "top gun" type training implemented.)

"2nd post: Americans had good training in Vietnam. Vietnamese didn't. "

So did the MiG 17's wreak havoc or not? Stats don't seem to support your hypothesis.

The Hurri: No way you can class this as Uber. It's mediocre or LESS in every area but guns. It's multiple weaknesses are well known, it's single strength also well known. Fight it accordingly, as you would with any other aircraft.

Bottom line: Like all other aircraft, if you die to the Hurri, it'll be because YOU made a mistake.

[ 08-12-2001: Message edited by: Toad ]