Browning M2 .50 cal and Rate of Fire

[Puck]

Still doesn't explain me, Wotan.  The only thing I can hit consistantly is the ground  

*I* think the only difference between S&P in the MG and cannon armed aircraft is how much you notice it.  I get a lot of S&P from everything; but with the 50s the tracers last longer.  IMHO the reputation for the 50 armed planes being more likely to do so is undeserved.  Also IMHO I don't think it really matters all that much.

50s fly a whole lot flatter than cannon rounds, so if someone is sniping you they're more likely to hit with a 50.  If you fly straight I can hit you at D1000 with a 50 cal.  I haven't fired enough cannon rounds to know where to aim them to hit at that range.  On mixed gun AC I'll fire the MGs until I can see what brand your shorts are, then I'll bring the cannon in.  I can't hit jack at range with the cannon of a mixed set.

In any event, at D1000 I don't think I've ever damaged anything.  The best I can hope for is an inexperienced pilot that will come back and mix it up.  Sometimes that works out badly for Puck.  I'm lousy.

[CptTrips]

Effectively means scoring hits and ripping of major parts.

Actually you said KILLS effectively out to 1.2k.

Yet you can produce no film of your own nor anyone elses to support such grossly exagerated claims of kills at greater than 1.0k distance in a .50 cal fighter in the MA enviroment.

I bet you'd be very hard pressed to find film of a kill past 700.

Folks have posted films of long range 50 cal snipers.

I remember it differently.  I remember people "claiming" it was happening and HT challenge anyone to post film of a MA kill past 1.0k and no one ever did.

Its possible perhaps, but would be an extremely rare occurance.

I could be wrong.

Wab

[Urchin]

I've been killed out to 900 a couple times by .50s, I'll have to check and see if I have films.  I think it was either Tac or Lazer that killed me in a a Ta-152 (he was in a P-38) - it read 900 something on my end, but it may have been closer on their end.

Also wulfie, if you fire at GVs while you are in FIGHTER mode, that HURTS your hit%, not helps it.  I should know, I strafe M3s all the time on base defense (and LVTs lol, I probably wasted 1000 rounds trying to kill a LVT in a Hurricane I).

[Innominate]

Originally posted by AKWabbit


I remember it differently.  I remember people "claiming" it was happening and HT challenge anyone to post film of a MA kill past 1.0k and no one ever did.

Its possible perhaps, but would be an extremely rare occurance.
 

It happens, not often, but it does.  Though, it never happens to a plane that wasn't engaged.  What happens is that said target got himself shot up badly, but not enough for something to fall off.  Target then flies perfectly straight and level 1000yards out, thinking he's safe now.  Attacker fires a well aimed burst of .50s, they land do that final bit of damage, and an important piece of the plane goes flying.  

It's rare enough that trying to film it will cause murphy to intervene.  It's also doesnt happen to a plane that has even the slightest amount of bank.

[CptTrips]

I've been killed out to 900 a couple times by .50s,

I think it was either Tac or Lazer that killed me in a a Ta-152 (he was in a P-38)

Was he ONLY firing .50 cal?  P-38 has cannons right?  That'd be much more believable to me because the cannon round relies more on its explosive capability than its kinetic energy.  A .50 cal relies soley on its kinetic energy which has dropped off QUITE a bit by 1000 yards.

It happens, not often, but it does.

Well, like I said, its prolly possible.  But it seems to be SO rare that in 3 years of "claims" I don't think I've seen one film posted of a 1000yrd+ kill.  CERTAINLY not from a .50 cal.  

Even BigFoot has been filmed a couple of times.

Regards,
Wab

[Urchin]

Thats a good question Wabbit, and to be honest I don't remember.  He was probably firing everything (I would have been in his situation).  

Also, innominate is exactly right, I've never been killed way out there without first having taken some hits before then- .50s just don't really do enough damage to kill you at that range.

[Puck]

Originally posted by Urchin
Thats a good question Wabbit, and to be honest I don't remember.  He was probably firing everything (I would have been in his situation).  

Also, innominate is exactly right, I've never been killed way out there without first having taken some hits before then- .50s just don't really do enough damage to kill you at that range.

Actually at D1000 in a 38 I only fire MGs.  The drop off on the 20mm will put it well below the flight path of the 50 caliber shells.  They're a lot better than I am, may have been lobbing those hizooka rounds at you.  P38 is the best sniping AC in the game; no convergence problems.  All you have is flight path variation between 20mm and 50 cal.

Then again, they may well have set convergence out to 1000 yards and the hizookas dropped right through the same holes as the 50 cal.  No way to tell for sure.

All I know for sure is level flight is a *B A D* idea if someone is behind you at less than 1.8.  Only takes one lucky shot into the cockpit.

[Pongo]

The mk108 could be tuned to 900 rpm as well. that would be cool..
Most any machine gun can be tuned to higher then recomended or authorized rate of fire if you throw out the reliability issues of doing so.
In a game without any consideration of the reliability of the guns isnt it a bit silly to allow the highest possible ROF?

[wulfie]

Yeah 'ripl' a.k.a. ripsone, we agree. 8)

To be honest, I rarely (1%) agree with any 'blanket statistic'. I far prefer a %/statistical breakdown/table/etc.

Mike/wulfie

[Kweassa]

What Pongo said.

 If .50s get their "field mods", no reason the MG151/15, /20 or the MK108s should not get theirs. 30mms firing at 900 rpm. Wouldn't that be sweet?

[Urchin]

Well, German planes already DO have field mods, in the form of the R and U packs (I don't know the german words).  

For instance, a standard 190A8 had 4x Mg151/20 and 2x Mg131.  the 190A8/R8 (I think it was the R8)  had 2x Mk108, 2xMg151/20, and 2xMg131.

I don't think increasing the ROF for the .50 calibers would be a bad thing, providing there is documentation and stuff showing it was really done in the field.

[Kweassa]

That'd count more as 'varying ordnance' rather than a 'field mod' we're talking about here.

  It is roughly the equivalent of asking for a field-mod paddle blade on the P-47D-11, or various other types of 'beefing up' on guns, engines, plane construction, etc etc.. in levels beyond the 'standard factory numbers' HTC uses.

 I'm pretty sure the HTC agenda on this matter is to stick with the "standard numbers" in all cases - which is probably the only way to be objective about this matter. Allowing customized modifications in AH would pave the road for many requests on all sort of 'field mods' that existed in history - what's to stop people from asking all those 'theoretical modifications which saw some  action historically' once people get their hands on those beefed up .50s ?? (ie. the argument that some typical plane should become X mph faster, because it was not uncommon the field people routinely sand-papered and oiled the plane's surfaces)

[GRUNHERZ]

Yep late war Mk108 30mm cannon were readjusted to fire 900rpm. They did not see service, due to end of war.  

Why do some of insist that .50cals are nearly equivalent to a good 20mm cannon. Plus all of you assume that the .50cal will maintain optimum penetration once it enters an airplanes outer skin. This is silly.

[Raubvogel]

.50 cals are ridiculously easy to hit with. That's the main reason for the higher hit%. I took a 51b up tonight because someone had porked the fuel enough to reduce the range of anything German to about 25 miles. It was amazingly easy to hit stuff with those .50s. And they tore stuff up just about as good as Mausers.

[Raubvogel]

Oops, forgot....why is anyone using an argument from freakin' FA3 to substantiate anything? Come on now, I would think most of us know better.