Do those suggestions increase fun, realism, or both?

[BigGun]

Amazing how some are so concerned about perks.

[T0J0]

NO................. Most of us fly to releave the days stress not to have more stress thrust upon us and to boot a penalty for enjoying ourselves.... If you want more stress then go fly ww2ONLINE.. LOL

Just my opinion though!

T0J0

[runny]

Originally posted by deSelys


As the 'penalty' would modify the ENY value, you should get more perks (not much tho) when shooting down somebody using aids...

Oops edited (I take my remarks for myself and learn to read someone's post completely before I answer).

You're right. However, would you mind much for getting some more perks?? OTOH, if HTC want to develop this, they can also leave the ENY value unchanged when somebody using aids is shot down. It doesn't matter...

 

I guess my problem with this has less to do with perks, and more to do with the way it fits into a familiar pattern:

(1) Add a harder way to fly as an "option," because it will be a lot more fun (the carrot) and

(2a) Penalize people for not using that "option" (the stick) or

(2b) give some in-game reward to people who use the "option" (sugary glaze on carrot)

By my way of thinkng, if the carrot's so darn sweet, you won't need the stick or the glaze.  That these carrots are almost never presented without the stick or glaze says lots to me about the intrinsic worth of the carrot, even in the eyes of the person presenting it.

In other words, you're suggesting a change to the game that's so unappealing that it won't catch on unless you somehow cajole people to use it.  I'd be a lot more enthusiastic about these ideas if their proponents thought they could stand on their own merits.

[Innominate]

There are two types of features.
Convienience features, and performance features.  Auto trim, combat trim, auto-takeoff fall into the first group, they don't improve your aircraft's performance, they just make playing the game less tedious.  The only thing worse than boredom is tedium.  Forcing players to manually trim thier planes for flight is not fun, it's tedious as hell.

Any penealty or reward for convienience features is really pretty pointless, since as others have said, it has little effect in a fight.

[Shiva]

Would you accept to have those realism features removed from the game? :
- limited fuel, realistic combat range (at least in % from plane to plane)

As opposed to what, deSelys? The current setup, where I can take off with a Lancaster and 100% fuel and be a glider only two and a half hours later? The fundamental problem with the fuel multiplier is that it allows the ground scale to be compressed so that people don't have to fly for two hours to get to a fight, but leaves the altitude scale uncompressed, so that you burn an unrealistic amount of fuel -- and cover an unrealistic distance in terms of field separation -- just in getting to a historical altitude.

Please tell me what is (are) the difference(s) between my suggestions and the existing features?

Your suggestions give the player  tedious make-work to keep them tied to the computer micromanaging their plane, rather than adding any new features. If they want to micromanage their trim historically, they can do it themselves by hand; your proposal implies that people won't do it unless they get some benefit out of it. You can already get better performance out of your plane if you pay attention to the trim by hand than if you use the autotrim.

Don't fool yourself, we develop absolutely zero practical experience of air combat while playing AH.

It's sanitized and stripped down, but if air-combat simulations don't teach you anything about air combat, why does the Air Force use them for training?  Not having to manage the aircraft and not facing actual bodily harm insulates us from the full experience, but sims can provide practical knowledge that does transition to RL. Ask the pilot-instructors at places like Air Combat USA -- people who have experience with air-combat simulations exhibit better situational awareness and are better able to understand and use ACM than people who come in off the street without the gaming experience behind them.

[deSelys]

T0J0,

I already fly WWIIOL. I prefer the FM here (I can't say which one is closer to RL because honestly I have no clue), but there are some features I prefer ther like the icons, ground handling and (yes) the manual trim.

Originally posted by runny

I guess my problem with this has less to do with perks, and more to do with the way it fits into a familiar pattern:

(1) Add a harder way to fly as an "option," because it will be a lot more fun (the carrot) and

(2a) Penalize people for not using that "option" (the stick) or

(2b) give some in-game reward to people who use the "option" (sugary glaze on carrot)

By my way of thinkng, if the carrot's so darn sweet, you won't need the stick or the glaze.  That these carrots are almost never presented without the stick or glaze says lots to me about the intrinsic worth of the carrot, even in the eyes of the person presenting it.

In other words, you're suggesting a change to the game that's so unappealing that it won't catch on unless you somehow cajole people to use it.  I'd be a lot more enthusiastic about these ideas if their proponents thought they could stand on their own merits.

Ok, I didn't know that perks were so important for some of you, this is why I thought about adjusting the ENY value a bit to entice people to get rid of the crutches.

Now what about adjusting ENY up a bit when you don't use the aid features. This way, ENY stay the same for the others and everyone is happy. No stick, just a carrot.
I'm sure you won't be jealous for not receiving the carrot now...

Originally posted by Innominate
Any penealty or reward for convienience features is really pretty pointless, since as others have said, it has little effect in a fight.

No effect in fight? Are you sure? Haven't you ever put your plane  back in level flight when, while wounded, you begin to pass out in the middle of a turn? Aren't you depreaving somebody from a  well earned kill then?

I do it too...but you have to admit that it is gaming the game...

Shiva:

About fuel: you're right. But what do you prefer? A difference between ground and alt scales, or having to fly during 8 hours to complete a bombing mission? (Well maybe you've just bought AKDejaVu's DVD collection and you could kill the time 'en route' )

About 'micromanagement':

Once again I don't want that everybody uses manual trim. I couldn't care less if it haden't 2 badly unrealistic side-effects:
1: you can't model planes with trim limited to some control surfaces only, like it was in RL.
2: you can straighten your plane easily while passing out when wounded.

Soooo I'm just suggesting a system to enticing players not to use it with a reward, a reward and a penalty or just a penalty, depending how you look at it.

About your illusional 'experience'

I don't even want to discuss this. If you're really believing it, good for you. But please don't ever tell a vet that you have some practical or even theoretical combat experience. It will give a really bad reputation to the flight-sim community.


Air Combat USA : Fighter Pilot of a day LOL
On a side not I followed a 3 days course called antislip driving (for police forces). It just taught me a thing: I have nothing in common with a rally pilot (and I wasn't the worse of the lot...).

[Innominate]

Originally posted by deSelys

No effect in fight? Are you sure? Haven't you ever put your plane  back in level flight when, while wounded, you begin to pass out in the middle of a turn? Aren't you depreaving somebody from a  well earned kill then?

If the person trying to kill me can't do it once I level out,  they don't deserve the kill.  Pilot wound's are prettymuch stupid as they stand now anyways, you black out but still have control of the plane??

Also, combat trim does funny things at extreme speeds(low or high).  Flipping over and managing trim manually in a fight can give you a significant edge over someone using combat trim.

[deSelys]

Originally posted by Innominate


If the person trying to kill me can't do it once I level out,  they don't deserve the kill.  Pilot wound's are prettymuch stupid as they stand now anyways, you black out but still have control of the plane??

Not really. It always takes some time before you pass out after being wounded. A wingman can save your arnold then.
I've already passed out while setting myself for landing and saved the day by using auto-trim (shame on me!).
And yes, the way wounds are modelled could be better. But I don't have any suggestions about it.

Originally posted by Innominate

Also, combat trim does funny things at extreme speeds(low or high).  Flipping over and managing trim manually in a fight can give you a significant edge over someone using combat trim.

We agree.

Btw I just looked at the flash clip in your sig! Funny as hell .
Tell me I don't sound like this. Puh-leaaaase!!!

[Innominate]

But after you get wounded, and are "passed out" you still have complete stick control.

[akak]

Originally posted by deSelys
T0J0,

I already fly WWIIOL. I prefer the FM here (I can't say which one is closer to RL because honestly I have no clue)

HINT::::It's not WW2OL.....



ack-ack

[runny]

No, deSelys, you don't get it.

What I'm saying is that if you really thought this were a good idea that would be more fun, you wouldn't feel the need to entice people to "forgo the crutches."

That you think this will be necessary says to me that maybe you should rethink just who will enjoy the game more if your changes take place.

[Maverick]

Why do you care how or why ANYONE else flies their plane??? If you're not paying their subscription you don't have any obligation to tell others how to fly or what to fly. Just disable the features you don't like for your own plane and don't worry about anyone elses plane, score etc in the game.

[easymo]

Hmmmm.  I must have used toad up.

[Karnak]

Trim is already way, way over emphasized.  Anything that adds to the unrealistc focus on trim only makes the problem worse.

Trim is not a primary flight control.

[Fancy]

No offense DeSelys, but if you don't want these features on, don't use them.  I think that everybody will agree with me when I say that Auto-level, Auto-trim, Auto-Takeoff, and Stall Limiter never got you killed in a fight.  In fact, Auto-Trim and Stall Limiter may have saved your bellybutton because they hampered the full potential of a con.

The motivation to trim a plane out yourself and to disablke stall limiter is that it will make your plane perform better and give you an edge over your opponent.  I have been playing AH for about 2 months now and have just started using elevator trim to recover from dives and I turned off stall limiter about a week ago.  My flying has improved.  So you see, the motivations are there organically.

I think your request to somehow penalize auto-level is absurd, rude and arrogant.  Please consider that this is a game and that sometimes our phones ring or that people sometimes enter the room and that it demands more attention than a game.

The ONLY suggestion you make that I agree with is to eliminate the auto-turnoff WEP.  And I say that because only recently have I realized the importance of the temp. guage.