The B24 Liberator!!

[Lizard3]

Anyone notice the Dr. jeckle/Mr. Hyde quality to some of these posts? Someone helping himself make a point? Hummm, I wonder:D

[BenDover]

Originally posted by Otto
"Out of 71 planes, nearly half of them are american, don't ya think its time we got some planes on the lower half of the table?


No.

care to explain why we shouldn't have more Japanese, Italian, and Russian planes?

Just give me 1 good reason why not to do it.

[Karnak]

BenDover,

There are some players who don't think any non-US aircraft should be added.

When Mitsu did the poll about which new Japanese aircraft people wanted he included the option for "No more Japanese aircraft ever" and some people voted for that. We only had 3 Japanese aircraft at that time, A6M5b, Ki-61-I-KAIc and N1K2-J.

[BenDover]

I said a good reason

this is a game based on ww2, not the frigging american civil war with planes!

And people like Otto reinforce the sterotype american gamer as "If Americans ain't the main part of the game, it isn't worth buying"

I'm hoping that isn't true for the majority of American gamers

[Karnak]

BenDover,

Look at my location.  I fly British, German and Japanese aircraft primarily.

Most American players just like WWII aircraft as a general rule, but a few are very jingoistic about it and only like American aircraft.  The same can be said for British, German, Japanese, Russian and Italian players.

[hyena426]

what?,,,americans only like american planes?,,, ,,well you got that wrong right there,,,ben you know i never fly american planes much,,,you can ask rosco,,cheetah or anyone,what do you see me flying?,,greman planes mostly,,fw190,,,bf109,,,ta152,,somtimes a british plane,,like hurry,,or typhone,,,,i think your steriotyping people a little,,just because they would like to see a plane that should be in here,,19,000 made for godsake,,,i bet it made it every corner of the world and them some,,,,read wild blue,,it wasnt a bad plane,,,and it was proubly produced more than most hole countries could produce in there hole air force,,,lol,,,american will allways have more planes,,because they made more than anyone,,and every country used them too besides axis,,usa had to fight 2 wars,,pacific and euorpe,,,,,so they will tend to have more planes,,,,one of my fav old games,,was called,,secret planes of the luffwaffa,,didnt have any american planes to fly,,,old game,,,and had a lot of cool wild planes,,like the german flying wing and stuff like that,,,me163,,262,,,,,,so dont say people from the usa only like games about usa stuff,,because it aint true,,i love othere countries planes just as much,,,gremans more than anyones,,because there allways a tad faster than {most} usa and british planes,,,there is no reason the liberator shouldnt be in here,,,,sure somthing new from othere countries would be nice,,but put in about 10 more planes from othere coutries and you will have them all!!,,ehahehahe,,{jk},,but about,,,most of there main line planes are here,,and most produced planes{besides  afew russian bombers,,that were slow and easy targets anyways},,in the end,,your going to have the same problem,,,usa will have more planes,,because in real life,,they had more models of planes,,that were used more widely and more than anything out there,,its a ww2 fact  and we shouldnt loose in a ww2 sim,,just because people think its unfair that usa has more planes

[BenDover]

read the last sentence,
and i said reinforce the sterotype, and if it wasn't true, then, for example, why wouldn't Operation: Flashpoint been about some other NATO country?

BTW, Britain and the Comon Wealth were also in the Pacific Theatre

ps, I've *'ed out the important bits, AND I'm not the one who said anything about americans only like american planes.

Originally posted by BenDover
And people *like* Otto *reinforce* the sterotype american gamer **as** "If Americans ain't the main part of the game, it isn't worth buying"

I'm hoping that isn't true for the majority of American gamers

[Viper17]

And people like Otto reinforce the sterotype american gamer as "If Americans ain't the main part of the game, it isn't worth buying"

That just makes me wanna puke. Ask all the americans who bought Il2, IL2 DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH AMERICA! Neither do most of the Video games in america. Most are set in places that dont exist. And allot are based in japan. So get the fax before you say anything.

[hyena426]

good show viper,,lol

[hyena426]

hehae,and this is getting a little off track,,,why start attacking me or americans,,,just because a importaint plane is left out?,,,can anyone say the liberator wasnt importaint to ww2?,,no,,,not one person can,,,and if they do,,there lieing,,lol

[-ammo-]

I believe that just the enormous role the B24 played during the war itself warrants its inclusion into AH. It is inevitable that it will be included, and I dont know that we can say that of the Italian bombers that some folks want to see included.  We will just have to sit back and watch.

[-ammo-]

BTW-- the German stuff we "need" is the JU-87, HE-111, DO-17. then we can a have BOB scenario with the representative planeset.

[Viper17]

Thank you Hyena.

 But to get back on topic. Without the Lib being the second most produced bomber in history (the Il2 beating it at 36,000). Therefor BACKING up the Fortress and providing a reliable work horse for the allies. In fact the Lib did more than the Fort ever did. Its was a transport, Sea rescue ship, Maritime recon and Patrol ship. It is said without the Lib the war in Europe probably never would have ended like it did. And as for the pacific, It was in use there up till 1943 as the PRIMARY bomber for American forces until the arrival of the B-29. But it did have it faults. Its thin Davis wing was VERRY prone to folding if hit near the fuelsalage. The thin skin and by having less armor by the Fort made the crew more prone to injury or death. It did not have as many redundant systems as the Fort thus saving weight and larger bombload. Its 10 .50 caliber Browning set in 4four turrets and two waist positions gave it less defensive firepower than the Fort but the use of strong formation made up for this. In all the Liberator could go faster, farther and with more bombload than a Flying Fortress.

This is one of the best thing i ever wrote. I am proud of this work. it took me two houers to finish but i did it.

[Otto]

Originally posted by BenDover

And people like Otto reinforce the sterotype american gamer as "If Americans ain't the main part of the game, it isn't worth buying"

I’m a ‘Stereotype’?   Woooo!    Who’d have ever thought, growing up in Western Pennsylvania so many years ago, that I’d make it this far?  It’s been a long hard struggle but I did it!  Few people ever reach their life’s goal but I have.   It is now complete!

[Snoopy22]

Look on the bright side Ben, Aces High is alot fairer than Warbirds3 when it comes to bombers, they don't have lancasters,
its an abomination i tell you! outrageous! Seriously though I think that rather than piling on more and more aircraft, perhaps HT would like to spend the next patch on overhauling the older aircraft textures and general appearance perhaps even introduce a more complex damage model, then once they're all looking as good as each other, than we start adding on some more aircraft.  However I think perhaps a fair rota system would be appropriate so as to keep a balance between the number of aircraft for each country.  Folk from other countries, although grateful for the US contribution and valuable efforts, don't want to feel pushed aside by the USA, after all this is meant to be a game that spans the greatest airborne conflict to date and as it was a world war we just want our efforts recognised.