Author Topic: Y Bombing Solved at Last  (Read 298 times)

Offline Halo

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Y Bombing Solved at Last
« on: August 22, 2002, 04:43:32 PM »
Okay, I finally figured out the y bombing problem, and I may not be alone here.  Classic communication gap.  Some people got it right away, some didn't, and I'm in the latter group.

The new bombing system was so highly touted that the y setting seemed at first read (and second, and twenty-second) that all you have to do is go into f6, then u, then y, and use the joystick to put the y ON ANY SPOT ALONG THE TRACK, hold that spot x amount of time, press u to get out of the set mode, and there you are.

THE BOMBS WOULD THEN HIT THE CROSSHAIRS WHENEVER YOU TOUCH THE BOMB RELEASE BUTTON.  DIDN'T EVEN HAVE TO SET ON THE TARGET IN ADVANCE.

Yes, I shout because what a great system, huh?  What an improvement.  Just let the y fix whatever distance ahead you want to bomb at.  All the admonitions to keep steady speed, etc., seemed to confirm that logical excellent bombing improvement.

WRONG.

Contrary to impressions, the new bombing is not THAT radically different from the old one.  My total misinterpretation of y capabilities is ludicrous in retrospect, but guess what -- judging from the many posts on this subject and great reduction in bomber use (for other reasons too, I know), I am not alone in this confusion.

So just in case any of you are as baffled about y as I was, here's the fix:

1.  After you reach cruising altitude and are not distracted by enemy activities, go ahead and make an initial setting of your bomb sight.  Just pick a good point out in front of your bomber, hold it a couple seconds while pressing y, set your target alt, and go back to whatever piloting/navigating/bombing position you like best to line up on the target from more than a sector out.

2.  As you get closer to the target, do another y setting on another point.  This helps you get comfortable with the procedure and better understand its capabilities.

3.  Repeat as necessary.

4.  About half a sector out, depending on altitude, you should be able to finally spot your target far ahead in the y setting mode.  THIS IS WHERE YOU ZOOM IN AND HOLD THE Y KEY DOWN AS LONG AS PRACTICAL TO REALLY FIX THAT TARGET DROP POINT.  JUST LIKE THE OLD SYSTEM, YOU HAVE SET THE DROP POINT ON THE TARGET.  I know, big duh on me.  But eventually I learn.  

Then u back to the bombardier spot, zoom to whatever perspective you prefer, release the bombs exactly on the last y point you set (presumably the closest edge of your target), press u to see the bomb impact, and enjoy your success.  

See, it only took me what? a month or whatever to figure that out.  Horizontal bombing once again is a viable and fun option for me.

Now all I have to figure out is that hopscotch gunner defense, take enough fuel, and I might even land missions occasionally.
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Offline bj229r

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Y Bombing Solved at Last
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2002, 10:46:36 PM »
my problem..which ive never seen a detailed response to...is that
ya HAVE to be lined up perfectly well ahead of whenever the target shows up on your f6...and there isnt any way to accurately do that---push the stick straight ahead...hold crosshairs on a hangar, etc...set....THEN when the target comes up on normal f6 view..its off often by 15-20 degrees--the zoom on the cal. crosshairs and the ACTUAL crosshairs dont agree.. (this is like 18k or so..above the wind elev. whish is always at 14k) Ya CANT
change course that close to target or ya hopelessly miss...THEN ya have to fluff'n go around again. Can SOMEone explain why this is so?
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Offline MOSQ

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Y Bombing Solved at Last
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2002, 10:53:11 PM »
Halo,
Now you've got me confused. I'm doing fine the way you describe it in the first part of your post.
I never use the y command to set the drop point on my actual target, I use it long before that.
Possibly you were'nt letting your speed settle to a  consistent speed before, because once you set your Y command and maintain the same speed, you can fly several sectors and drop accurately.

Offline Halo

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Y Bombing Solved at Last
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2002, 11:05:08 PM »
Yeah, BJ, alignment is never easy.  I'm always hopping back and forth between pilot and bombardier trying to finesse the alignment, and so far I bomb under the 14k wind.  I've seen some weird angles in the process, but then I usually just keep going back and forth until things line up.  And then, as you say, sometimes I'm past the target and get to do it all over again.  

Mosq, I thought bombing was supposed to work the way you do it, but any proximity of my bomb impact to target was usually just coincidence.  I never developed any consistency or confidence in the pretarget alignment because it never seemed to stay constant over the target.

I usually had my speed and alt and everything nice and consistent the way all the instructions say.  Sometimes I would fiddle with last minute adjustments to try to yank an errant run back over the main target, but they rarely worked, just as most advice predicted.  Key was good alignment far enough out.

I'm finally getting pretty good results with a long basically straight run, a couple pre adjustments, and then that final crucial adjustment at the edge of the target.
Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. (Seneca, 1st century AD, et al)
Practice random acts of kindness and senseless beauty. (Anne Herbert, 1982, Sausalito, CA)
Paramedic to Perkaholics Anonymous

Offline bj229r

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Y Bombing Solved at Last
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2002, 11:15:56 PM »
my problem..which ive never seen a detailed response to...is that
ya HAVE to be lined up perfectly well ahead of whenever the target shows up on your f6...and there isnt any way to accurately do that---push the stick straight ahead...hold crosshairs on a hangar, etc...set....THEN when the target comes up on normal f6 view..its off often by 15-20 degrees--the zoom on the cal. crosshairs and the ACTUAL crosshairs dont agree.. (this is like 18k or so..above the wind elev. whish is always at 14k) Ya CANT
change course that close to target or ya hopelessly miss...THEN ya have to fluff'n go around again. Can SOMEone explain why this is so?
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers

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Offline Shiva

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Y Bombing Solved at Last
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2002, 12:29:01 AM »
Quote
THEN when the target comes up on normal f6 view..its off often by 15-20 degrees--the zoom on the cal. crosshairs and the ACTUAL crosshairs dont agree.. (this is like 18k or so..above the wind elev. whish is always at 14k) Ya CANT
change course that close to target or ya hopelessly miss...THEN ya have to fluff'n go around again. Can SOMEone explain why this is so?


Welcome to the wonderful world of vector mathematics. Fortunately, you won't have to learn all the dirty parts inside.

Let's say you are at 20K due north of your target about  5 minutes flight time at a speed of 250 mph true (not IAS) from drop, your compass reading showing you on a heading of 180°. You calibrate your sight, and you're lined up perfectly with your target, and continue flying south, waiting for your target to appear.

Well, during those 5 minutes, while you fly about 21 miles south, that wind layer is pushing you east; in five minutes, that  wind will have pushed you 2.5 miles east of your target. Now, of course, you'll notice that you aren't lined up any more well before you reach the actual drop point, which is why you see your target at an angle off your crosshair lineup.



In order to fly due south with that 30-mph crosswind, you have to steer into the crosswind, so that the drift from the wind and the drift from your pointing your plane at an angle to your intended line of flight cancel out. In this case, you would have to hold a course of about 187° in order to have a ground track (the course your plane follows along the ground) be a course of 180°.

There are various tools you can use to figure out what your drift correction should be.  The E-6B Flight Computer (which is actually more of an aviation slide rule) will let you compute drift correction angles from your flight data --  true airspeed, wind speed, wind angle, etc..

You can also ballpark it, which is easier to work out and just as good for AH purposes. First, you compare the angle between your course and the wind and look up the wind speed in this table:



If you were flying a course of, say, 150°, the wind would have an angle of  60° to your plane. Looking at the table above, at 30 mph, a crosswind at 60° will have a 15-mph component along your flight path, and a 26-mph component across your flight path.

Then you apply the wind component along your flight path to your true airspeed, and compare that against the crosswind to find your drift correction angle:



Going back to our example, let's assum you were flying at 180 mph true. Since a course of 150° is away from the wind, you add the wind component along your flight path -- 180 + 15 gives you a speed of 195 mph, with a 26 mph crosswind. Looking up at the table above, we'll use 200 mph and 25 mph crosswind, and get a 7° correction, so for your ground path to be a course of 150°, you would have to fly a course of 157°.

Once you've got your drift killed, you can calibrate your bombsight. Minor course corrections at the last minute -- 5° either way, for example -- won't make enough of a change in your course triangle to throw your bombsight calibration off much -- a 10° course change with a 30-mph crosswind would only move the actual impact point about 5 feet, well within the bomb scatter distance. You'd get wider errors with a larger course correction, but if you see large miss distances if you drop right after a sudden course change, what you are actually seeing is aiming slop that is caused by the sight being pulled out of line by the course change and taking some time after you stop the turn for the sight to settle back down. If you make a sharp right turn, you'll drop left of where you're aiming, and the reverse for left turns.

« Last Edit: August 23, 2002, 12:32:12 AM by Shiva »

Offline Halo

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Y Bombing Solved at Last
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2002, 08:18:15 AM »
Excellent explanation, Shiva.  That's why I always bomb under the wind.  When AH lowers the wind, I'll start a new bombing specialty: chaff.
Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. (Seneca, 1st century AD, et al)
Practice random acts of kindness and senseless beauty. (Anne Herbert, 1982, Sausalito, CA)
Paramedic to Perkaholics Anonymous

Offline bj229r

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Y Bombing Solved at Last
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2002, 12:02:35 AM »
wow. Perhaps ill only go against or WITH the wind from now on..thanx for detailed reply...Nice to know buff drivers have to deal with EVERY fluff'n aspect of reality. (next patch prolly have us
havin to mess with mixture on each engine to keep plane goin true)
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Offline Minotaur

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Y Bombing Solved at Last
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2002, 11:50:17 AM »
You can make course corrections using "Rudder Trim" while in the BombSite, or from any AutoPilot Mode.  Seems to work pretty well  only in bombers.

Calibrate your BombSite then steer the crosshairs over target.

I believe k and l (L) are the default keys for rudder trim.

Offline Shiva

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« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2002, 12:40:41 PM »
Quote
Perhaps ill only go against or WITH the wind from now on..thanx for detailed reply...Nice to know buff drivers have to deal with EVERY fluff'n aspect of reality.


Actually, I have to admit that I only found those tables when doing a lookup on the Net for 'wind drift'; I'd been doing it by eye and estimation using the map display, by weathercocking the plane into the wind a bit and watching my position relative to my line to target to see if I needed to adjust my correction. Those two tables will take all the guesswork out of it now, so I benefit from your question, too.

Offline MOSQ

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Y Bombing Solved at Last
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2002, 12:45:01 AM »
This explains why the fun is gone from bombing ! And why I never bomb above 12K.  
If HTC would turn off the wind, maybe people would start flying hi-alt bombers again.