Do not get carried away with realism.

[miko2d]

Chester:
 Miko2d means "miko two dashes" as my handle is miko-- (416 RCAF) in WB and some boards only allow alphanumeric characters in a name.

 You are absolutely right. I used to post similar things until I got tired. I do have some military experience myself - as a gunner through platoon commander of the T72 main battle tank. We had a joke that completely describes the priorities regarding the balance of technology and humans (loose translation from Russian):
 - Question: What is the most important thing in a tank?
 - Answer: The most important think in a tank is not to toejam your pants.

 The fact of not sleeping the night or having  inhaled too much smoke from the gun barrel due to the headwind after the first few shots had more influence on my accuracy or ability to spot a target (or stay concious for that matter) then having a properly tuned stabiliser or using new laser vs older optical sight.

 I imagine that a pilot who worked the stick of a 109 for a few minutes in a very small cockpit at high altitude had problems with precision lining up his shots.
 P38 pilots were usually frosen solid by the time they saw action because of the problem of piping heat from the wing-mounted engines.
 At the same time pilots of P47 with inferior  maneuvrability had no problem keeping up with german planes because of huge cockpit (allows for leverage) and low stick forces.

 I would really want to see the quality of input deteriorate (delay, random small inputs) depending on the amount of input and stiffness of the stick - to simulate pilot's fatigue. Probably a blackout should affect you sooner if you are tired.

 And of course the Fear of Death! I never (almost never) did things in real life or in WB scenarios that people have no problem doing in the main arena. I did try to play for survival in MA and it was very interesting for me. Not too many kills though - have to RTB after any ping, only attack with advantage and clear retreat line, run avay from any contact with alt advantage... Nobody came up with a good idea how to program the FoD outside a scenario...  

 How about introducing random shaking of the stick and lower rudder responce (weakness in the legs) after seing enemy tracers pass nearby? Just in the beginning if the tour of duty, if the number of sorties is low, to simulate an inexperienced pilot getting scared. Or a chance of a spontaneous bailout - some pilots did not remember how they did it after seing an enemy on their 6 - so scared they were. Or vomiting all over your gunsight after barely escaping an uncontrolled dive! Or daring not to get out of the vehicle before the crewmen brought you clean pants? I bet the real WWII pilots remember those moments better then twiddling with some obscure control.  

miko--

[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 11-11-1999).]

[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 11-11-1999).]

[jedi]

OK, Jedi Whacked-out Idea #327 (or was it #328?)  

Well, not everyone liked my old "small performance penalty for choosing Easy Engine Model" idea, but maybe this will be better...

Say you were actually moving all those switches, levers, etc to tweak your beast for peak performance.  It'd take TIME, right?  So...build in a DELAY.  You want max power, just push the throttle up, BUT, it's gonna take a bit of time for R2D2 to set your engine up for you.  If you choose Easy Engine, you get a rookie R2 unit, so you don't get instant full power or instant cruise power or instant landing power setup.

If you don't choose Easy Engine, you get to do it all yourself, and the delay would be programmed so that someone who practiced could beat the speed of R2 and get that itty-bitty edge.

After all, EVERY pilot knew how to set their engines up.  It's really a simple matter of memorizing the checklist steps and repititious practice.  But the sim should reward guys for becoming "experts" on their aircraft type.  Being able to quickly manage your aircraft systems in combat would be a definite edge; it could certainly be modeled in the sim.

--jedi

[Teapot]

Why model something as esoteric as fear in combat ??? Now we really are going way off beam IMO, and that would be modelling complexity for complexities sake.  
As a WWII aircraft buff (heck .. I love anything with wings  ) my primary interest is in what was done from a mechanical perspective. I have no interest in modelling things like fatique, because levels and reactions to fatigue vary greatly! I've seen people perform wonderfully in the face of fear and fatique, I know the feeling myself, and to suggest that you could somehow model it on a computer is silly to the extreme!  
What can be modelled with a degree of precision is the combination of actions, procedures, which lever or button should be followed or pressed to achieve a desired outcome in a 3 dimmensional fluid environment.
The REAL challenge of online aerial combat is (for me anyway  ) who can get the best out of their beast, to vanquish the enemy, ... that beast being the virtual approximation of our favourite aircraft!
If you did model fatique and fear, let's have the hero model circa 42, or the first - time pilot, or the guy who got a dear john the night before his mission, or the pilot who drank too much the night before etc etc etc .. hehe... but no thanks.
Blackout and redout effects are about as far as we should go with the physical limitations of a human being in a sim. Modelling psychological factors would really turn it into a gamer's game  .

Cheers
Teapot

------------------
Phoenix Squadron

[Swoosh]

Since we are all aware of the elasticity of the timespace continuum, we should by now  all know that time slows down for you

a) the faster you go
b) the closer you are to a source of gravity

Therefore, I think that we should model this effect in the sim.  How about it, HTC?  Say  I'm fresh off the runway in a spit, and some half-dog/half-carrion eating bird swoops down from on high at 400 mph to vulch innocent little me.  He just zooms on by filling my plane with SUPER fast bullets and ruining my paintjob.  Well, relativity states that the offending birdie should actually be moving slower than me from my point of view!  Not to mention his bullets which by dint of their speed should be travelling backwards in timespace and straight into his guns!
 
Now thats realism and I won't be satisfied until its modeled here.  Remember, the quicker you say no, the longer your response actually takes to reach me.

------------------
Swoosh of the Skeleton Crew

[Jinx]

I was one of those arguing for optional advanced engine management before the beta started.
We got the necessary dials included in the planes from the beginning and that was a big step in my opinion, not just having a ‘power meter’ but actual RPMs and manifold pressure, and the fuel management.

What we need now is the optional controls to effect the way the engine is set up under any given condition. I mean the planes fly now, but it should be possible to make the power plant operate more effectively, fuel efficient and get a slightly better acceleration or sustained climb rate if we could do things like manually lean the mixture or change the prop pitch.

I want the option to override the automatic systems and set things up as I want it, while risking overheating or blowing up the engine if I go too far. I my opinion system management was a big part of flying and fighting in a WWII era plane and should, optionally, be so in a simulation of that as well.

For those who don’t want to mess with it, the automation will always be there. But for me it would add a lot to the immersion, depth and addiction factor of the sim. What I would get in reward, apart from the extra enjoyment, for using the advanced systems would be better range and perhaps slightly shorter takeoff and better sustained climb. No real edge in a dogfight.

  -Jinx
  The Flying Pigs