German Bombers

[theNewB]

and that 7.9mm MG on the JU 52 is going to scare nobody

correction all Ju-52 models

Armament: one 13mm or 7.92mm trainable rearward firing MG in rear dorsal position, provision for one 7.92mm trainable MG in forward dorsal position, and one 7.92mm trainable lateral-firing MG in each of the tow beam positions

so it wouldnt be 1 MG it would be 5. You can put up a good fight if you can gun and pilot.

[Staga]

German Warplanes of World War II (Chris Chant)

Do-217E-2, first aircraft were issued to the Stab (staff section) of Stukageschwader 2 for operational trials in the summer of 1941:

Load up to 4000kg of disposable stores carried in lower-fuselage weapons bay rated at 2500kg and on up to two hardpoints (both under the wing with one unit rated at 1800kg or two units each rated at 1300 or 250kg, and generally comprising an internal load of two 1000kg SC-1000bombs and two 250kg SC-250 bombs, or four 500kg SC-500 bombs, or eight 250kg SC-250 bombs and an external load of one 1800kg SC-1800 bomb or LT F5 torpedo, or two Hs 293A anti-ship missiles, or two 250kg SC-250 bombs.

515kmh@5200m, 440kmh@SL, cruising speed max 415kmh@5200m and economical 395kmh @ optimum altitude

Initial climb rate 216m/min with maximum internal weapons load

Service ceiling 9000m

Max. range 2800km with auxiliary fuel, typical range 2300km with standard fuel.

Fixed armament one 15mm MG151 w/250rounds in the lower port side of the nose, one 13mm MG131 trainable MG w/500rounds in the power operated dorsal turret, one 13mm MG131 trainable rearward firing MG w/1000rounds in the ventral step position, one 7,92mm MG15 trainable forward-firing MG in the nose, one 7,92mm MG15 trainable lateral-firing MG in each of the cockpit side windows and, in Do217E-2/R19 subvariant, one remotely controlled 7,92mm MG81z rearward-firing two barrel MG in the tail cone.

[TracerX]

I must vouch for Wotan's instructions in the BoB scenario.  I had wondered why we had a ceiling altitude, and a max manifold pressure.  Now I understand, and can confirm that at least our flight of Ju-88's were operated at the correct (slower) settings for the entire first two frames.

[-ammo-]

I agree with the original poster.  We NEED the HE111, JU-87 and the DO-17. They would fill out a historical BOB planeset (the JU88A4 we have is hard to catch in a hurri 1).  good on Wotan for having his JU-88's fly at reduced settings to simulate historical AC.  But, would be much better if we had the historical opponents.

[brady]

Typicaly the JU 52 transport had only 3 three MG 15's(7.9mm), one dorsal and 2 beam positions. So I suspect that if we did get a JU 52, it would have this configuration, I should of said those instead of that:). Still the MG 15 is prety usless for detering a hispano armed fighter, or any other fighter for that matter. If I had a choice of the two in a hangewr ofr MA use I would take the goon, it's faster, and goon flights are long and slow as it is. Granted I would look better in a JU 52:)

 If we are going to debate what future transport we must have then I would strongly sugetst the Tabby, it would be easy for HTC to do, was faster than the C 47 and had a 13mm MG and 2 7mm mg's for defense, a much better choice than the JU 52 for an Axis transport.

[whgates3]

Breda BR.20 & Fiat CR.42 are also needed to fill out Battle of Britain planeset...also maybe Blenheims are needed for the RAF to attack accidentally - is there ever going to be a Battle of Barking Creek scenario?

[theNewB]

If we are going to debate what future transport we must have then I would strongly sugetst the Tabby, it would be easy for HTC to do, was faster than the C 47 and had a 13mm MG and 2 7mm mg's for defense, a much better choice than the JU 52 for an Axis transport.

Granted. But if you think about it all transports are easy targets i just suggested the Ju-52 because everyone has heard/seen it.Other then that im all for another axis transport plane whatever it may be.It could be a Gotha 244 or a Arado 232,The thing is axis will need a transport sometime or another.

[cajun]

Sorry Wotan, wasnt sure on the exact top speed of the a4/a1 but I knew they were different... however it is still pretty challenging for the hurris to engage the bomber formations, & I have been out run in a hurri by a ju88 many times in BoB games I sometimes host in h2h.

But my point was not really the top speed of ju88, but the other bombers used such as the he-111, which you said had a top speed of 247mph, and not as good armament as ju88a-4.

But since we don't have them, Its "fair enough" to use ju88 inplace, I wasnt sayin fly them at low throttle or anything as others have, and I'll agree its not too big of an advantage.
BoB was just the only example I could think of at the time, I don't mind fighting Ju88a-4's this scenario, just using it as an example of how *Simular* scenarios could be improoved...

[Shiva]

Typicaly the JU 52 transport had only 3 three MG 15's(7.9mm), one dorsal and 2 beam positions. So I suspect that if we did get a JU 52, it would have this configuration, I should of said those instead of that. Still the MG 15 is prety usless for detering a hispano armed fighter, or any other fighter for that matter. If I had a choice of the two in a hangewr ofr MA use I would take the goon, it's faster, and goon flights are long and slow as it is. Granted I would look better in a JU 52

Not entirely useless, though. I remember the last scenario I participated in back in Warbirds; it was the France 1940 scenario -- Blitzkrieg? Anyway, I flew a Ju-52 for the entirety of that scenario, and on one mission managed to get a pair of kills --  one clueless twit who was stupid enough to give me a stable firing solution, rather than a tracking shot, and one knee-jerking  fellow who made a particularly good low-altitude curving approach on me... and then jerked his stick when I pinged him and rolled the wrong way, diving inverted into the ground. He did get my elevators, though, and I was forced to taxi my way to my target, where I got all my troops out before I was spotted and strafed dead on the ground. Musta been pretty embarrassing for those two, though, losing an air-to-air engagement with a Ju-52...

[AtmkRstr]

Veriety is what makes this game so much fun.
I'd fly goons much more often if I didn't have to fly the C-47 all the time. Why not add the Ju-52? maybe even a British C-47!
And Canadian Mustangs!

Why not, eh?

[hyena426]

the hinkel 111 does need to be here too,,the he 111 of 1943,,could carry over 7,150lb of bombs!!,,more than a b17,,,more than a ju88 could,,,it wasnt as fast,,but could out carry it any day of the week,,,it had a model of he 111,,with a attachable 115mm cannon under its belly instead of bombs,<~~wouldnt that be nice too see?,,lol,,,it could carry,,v1 guided missles,,,,,it had radio controlled Bv 246 glide missiles,,,,it was a great plane,,and not represented well by the ju88,,,,,it was more versitle,,,and used alot more for experiments,,because it was a stable platform for experimental torpedoes,,,i bet brady is saying,,oohh no,,not him again,,ehahe,,{just joking},,but for some reason,,your being so bias against very popular bombers,,,he 111,,,b24,,,they wernt there just for filler,,they were all a importaint part of ww2,, ,,,it shouldnt be bias to any bombers or fighters that were produced alot,,,no matter if its unfair or not,,,,i know lots of people wanna see the b29,,,but,,that wont happen soon,,,i dont think,,,because it was so far ahead of everything,,it would rule the skies,,,when the enola gay dropped its bomb,,,, ,,it could out clime any japanies fighter in the sky,,now thats a mean bomber,,lol,,,,,,,,,,,but besides the b29,,,,,,he 111,,,b24,,,,both main line bombers,,,and should be in here sooner or later,,,you have too,,or you wont have a complete ww2 simulator,,,,cant leave out a few planes,,just because some one thought they were ugly,,,or just dont like them,,because they want some othere weird hardly produced plane in its place,,lol,,and those 2 bombers were the back bone of there countries

[Staga]

What's the thing with ,,,,,,,,,,, ?



"We NEED the HE111, JU-87 and the DO-17. They would fill out a historical BOB planeset."
 
If that's the case we also NEED Blenheim, Defiant and Gladiator; Without those planes you cant have historical planeset for BoB.

[Wotan]

well the defiant gladiator and blen didnt have much of an impact on the bob.


Do 17 flew way more sorties then any model ju88. I can post numerous german aircraft that were in service and used over britain during bob that we dont need to have.

Ideally the he 111 do 17 and ju 87  would have made for a near complete scenario.

No one is missing the defiant

the do 17 carried less of a bomb load and the he111 was slow but tough.

[whgates3]

according to the RAF's Bo'B web site the Ju88A-4 flew w/ KG 51 during the Bo'B, and the Do 215 also participated, although another web site i looked at said the Do 215 was not delivered until Jan 1941, so the RAF's info may not be 100% accurate...at least they've given up their claims on the He 113

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Staga
"We NEED the HE111, JU-87 and the DO-17. They would fill out a historical BOB planeset."
 
If that's the case we also NEED Blenheim, Defiant and Gladiator; Without those planes you cant have historical planeset for BoB.

The Spitfire Mk IIa has more of a place in the BoB planeset than all of those combined.

That list also leaves out the Wellington, which was active from the start of the war.  Something that the Blenheim backers persistantly overlook.