Author Topic: War On Drugs Helps Terrorists  (Read 439 times)

Offline funkedup

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Offline rogwar

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War On Drugs Helps Terrorists
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2002, 04:26:21 PM »
I am for legalizing drugs to remove or at least reduce the criminal element.

I have spent A LOT of time in Colombia during the last 14 years and what they say in this article is very true.

Drug profits also support many other terror groups, particularly opium and heroin production.

Offline Daff

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« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2002, 05:40:01 PM »
IRA makes a fair bit of it's money from drug-trading.

Daff

Offline miko2d

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« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2002, 08:15:36 AM »
That is hopeless.
 I thought that drug lords influenced our policies maintain the war on drugs and keep them in business but now believe they did not have to bother.
 Even after all that 911 crap we are not closing our borders to illegal traffic.

 miko

Offline popeye

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KONG

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Offline SC-Sp00k

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« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2002, 08:55:34 AM »
Another in the great line of steamy hot Dog doo doo that perforates this forum at times.

So what?

Oil Companies can start or aggravate mini wars. Yet you put Fuel in your car to go beep beep at people on the way to work do you not?

The white collar criminal element now steal from you legally in a variety of legal Business corporations, laundering their filthy money yet you still buy and use their products.

Some African, Middle Eastern Countries practice barbaric rituals on Children and Women, yet you still want to trade with them and deal in their goods.

Some Asian Countries have Child Labour sweat shops yet you still wear their clothes and spend your hard earnt dollars holidaying there.

If you want to stop these things. You fight against them.  If you want to talk about stopping them, you do it, and change those things around you to make YOU feel better without actually not having done bugger all in the grand scheme of things.

etc etc.

This article may well be true. It rings true with me. But if your trying to say, lets get all holier than thou and legalise drugs in the fight against Terrorism, id say light up another Billy you druggie freak.

Legalising Drugs will have as much impact on fighting Terrorism as me shaking my fist at them and yelling Stop it, you nasty People.

The Criminal element adapts. Thats how they survive. Terror Groups get funding through Corrupt Powers, Criminal Elements and Countries that we all love to hold hands with who have their own agenda's running at that time.

We've have already discussed this thread in another form. Its flogging a dead Bong.

Offline Swoop

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« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2002, 09:03:38 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SC-Sp00k
Legalising Drugs will have as much impact on fighting Terrorism as me shaking my fist at them and yelling Stop it, you nasty People.
 



Ya know, he's got a real good point there.



However, one minor little point:  If it's legal then you can tax it.


Whats scarier, the DEA or the IRS?

« Last Edit: August 28, 2002, 09:37:31 AM by Swoop »

Offline Daff

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« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2002, 09:08:36 AM »
Hmm, how do you tax terrorism?

Daff

Offline straffo

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« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2002, 09:13:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Daff
Hmm, how do you tax terrorism?

Daff


by making it legal ?

I know I deserve some in the face :D

Offline miko2d

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« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2002, 09:28:12 AM »
Spook,
 All the things you listed as objectionable - while undoubtedly immoral - have a huge distinction from the topic in question - from our american point of view.
 The distinction is that those bad things are not directed against us like drug-subcidised anti-US terrorism is.
 That is why our attitude is different and it's just dirty insinuation on your part that we are doing it from some high moral principles.

 We do not care if some politicians sell their countries to our oil companies. We do not care if some savages mutilate their women. We do not care if some eastern brat spends 14 hours in Nike's sweatshop instead of his father's field for ten times the money. We do not care to stop those things. We do not care to fight against those things - they do not threaten us.**
 We only care to stop the flow of money into coffers of people who are after us.

 When americans made alcohol legal, organised crime went into illegal gambling, illegal drugsm, illegal prostitution and politics. They did not go into soap manufacturing.

 If we de-criminalise those three so called "concentual" activities (or at least drugs - everything else is easily accessible and located in US unlike drug production), I cannot think of anything else that americans want and do not have so that crime can provide that as alternative to drugs.
 Your statement "Legalising Drugs will have as much impact on fighting Terrorism" is completely against common sence and any economic theory. It will cut the major source of money.

-----------------
** That statement is not entirely true - any american who cares is free to buy a ticket and go anywhere and fight any evil he/she wants. There are plenty of americans among world's wandering missionaries, mercenaries, volunteers, jihad fighters, plestinian intifaders, israeli defence forces, Taliban, Al-Qaeda - you name it...
 But we are talking about the state policy here.

P.S. There seems to be a major misconception about all americans supporting our oil companies in getting us free oil at any moral cost. While we make no bones about moral part, getting cheap oil is against most american's interests and oil companies, while big, are a tiny minority compared to anti-oil interests.
 Cheap oil siphones our money out of the country - money that could be invested in our economy to pay american workers and american shareholders. If oil intake is limited, the oil companies will just raise prices and make similar profit. But to compensate for missing oil we would have to substitute new modern technologies and american labour in many areas - chemistry, metallurgy, car manufatcure, materials, energy, research, etc. If oil is cut off, we are likely to experience as great a boom as one caused by introduction of computers. There would be so much work for everyone our GDP would take off for many years.

 P.P.S. You may have noticed that I left out politics as an area where organised crime can apply itself - profiting through rigged contracts etc. We do have a solution for that - libertarian agenda.
 Once government is out of everything but military and few other essential things that cannot be possibly provided by private sector, the politicians would not have any influence to sell.

 miko
« Last Edit: August 28, 2002, 09:32:40 AM by miko2d »

Offline SC-Sp00k

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« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2002, 10:17:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
Spook,That is why our attitude is different and it's just dirty insinuation on your part that we are doing it from some high moral principles.

I dont want to quote all of your post Miko as I would be longwinded in reply and the length would soon lose everyones interest.  Your assuming my post was directed at the American People?

Actually it was not. Whilst some in the US may continue to believe that this war is theirs and theirs alone, Others in the world also have people in the firing line and also lost people in the WTC.  I am anything but anti-American. Im very Pro-American if anything but sweet jesus some of you are bloody mental at times with your American only views, its no wonder half the world is mad at you.

Drug Legalisation is a World wide debate.  Damn me to hell if Terrorism isnt also.  I'll be brown thing off a sheeps bum if it doesnt happen to others outside the US with the length of decades attached and the cost in life a damn sight higher. Just how passionate are you about Terrorism in Azbekistan?  Not very, ill bet.

You boys got a nasty howdy do slap in the face and you may be the Terrorism Cop directing the Traffic at the moment, but it is NOT just your War.  My persective therefore is Generalised. Not directed at the American People alone.

We do not care if some politicians sell their countries to our oil companies. We do not care if some savages mutilate their women. We do not care if some eastern brat spends 14 hours in Nike's sweatshop instead of his father's field for ten times the money. We do not care to stop those things. We do not care to fight against those things - they do not threaten us.**
 We only care to stop the flow of money into coffers of people who are after us.


While worthy of a scathing moral response of biblical proportions, ill assume that you mentioned the above in good faith, tho the true meaning may be cloudy to me.  

My intention was to show a circle of events. Each seperate in its own Cause with its own agenda but each leading back to the other in a seamless pattern.

Why do Terrorists exist? Many reasons. Disallusionment. Visions of Granduer, Alternative Purpose, Financial benefit, Fixation on Persecution etc.  1 Terrorist can do little. 2 can do more, 3 more and so on.  How does the first Terrorist attract the 2nd, 3rd and so on?  He gives those in need what they crave the most. Hope. Its how Generals get Privates to charge into certain death. Tell the needy of a better life. Could be eons away but its there, but only if they will seize it.  Should we not worry about the oppressed, starving and ill treated?  With skillful manipulation, these are the people of Armies.

The Culture of People in the world varies like opposite Poles. What is acceptable in Africa or in the Asiatic can often be repugnant and abhorrent to us in the West. Our views on Drugs are not theirs and neither is Terrorism. To us they are Terrorists. To them they are Patriots.  Would a Patriot cease Operations because their alleged oppressor threw a spanner in the works?
Would you?

What the article offers is a BandAid.  A nice big one perhaps but a Bandaid none the less. Because the enormity of the task in sealing the Problem is beyond the scope of comprehension or capability for most of the world. Those that even want to try.   So we plug a leakand another springs up and we plug that and another and another and another.

Never winning the War because we are divided in the battle we fight. Running from one spot fire to the next.

Legalise Drugs and you close one door to open another. What they propose in the Article may well be true. But it is not an answer.  You create other Problems domestically.   In 10 -20 years, that becomes your biggest concern. Until the next drama rears its ugly face.

Cerberus has many heads.  Cut one off and another grows.  That is Terrorism.  That is how it is funded.

When americans made alcohol legal, organised crime went into illegal gambling, illegal drugsm, illegal prostitution and politics. They did not go into soap manufacturing.

No. They went into much more profitable ventures with IT Technology as their gun and International Money Markets as their bullets. Instead of killing each other, They now making a killing from each other.

miko
« Last Edit: August 28, 2002, 10:23:06 AM by SC-Sp00k »

Offline miko2d

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« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2002, 10:42:49 AM »
Well, Spook,
 That "dirty insinuation" that we are moral on your part was humor. If it were serious, it would be treating your statement as pro-american rather than anti- as assuming someone's morality is usually a positive attitude.
 Anyway there was nothing in my post reflecting on your towards-american attitude. Or at least not intended to be there.

 I just wanted to illustrate that some of us want war on drugs stopped for pretty specific reasons concerning our well-being and irrelevant to eradication of misery (as illustrated by your tear-jerking examples)  throughout the rest of the world.

 US population is a major source of money to drug trade some of what is spilled to terrorism. A lot of the price is due to resk and criminality of the trade - not its ingerent high cost of manufacture.
 US is a major market and if we stop being one, considerable part of drug trade will be out of business and what remains will be very inconvenienced by competition and oversupply - again reducing their profits. And there is always a chance otehrs can follow our lead - which is not really ours.

While worthy of a scathing moral response of biblical proportions, ill assume that you mentioned the above in good faith, tho the true meaning may be cloudy to me.
 I tried to keep our politics in certain areas separate from our feelings in others. Of course we care personally and collectively. It's just those issues are not related unless negatively. Having drug-corrupted government and civil war cannot be that good for south-american peasants.

 No. They went into much more profitable ventures with IT Technology as their gun and International Money Markets as their bullets. Instead of killing each other, They now making a killing from each other.
 That is complete gibberish. There is some graft and mob influence in muicipal-level construction business in places. Some in unionised labor - allplaces having to do with corruptable politics.
 If mob were running IT, I would say they did a good job. Of course it's a complete BS. Ours is not a criminal economy.

 miko
« Last Edit: August 28, 2002, 10:45:52 AM by miko2d »

Offline Creamo

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War On Drugs Helps Terrorists
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2002, 10:47:31 AM »
Interesting article. I agree at least.

I simply don’t understand the criminal issue of drugs. While I don’t think everyone should do them, I can’t see why you should put someone in jail for using, and making a viable market where brutal criminals, and even terrorists, are sure to profit. As my brother was married to a psychologist, I’m pretty much well informed legal drugs are way better in effect for the user, and WAY more mind/life f*cking than pot. Those “Doctors” had a ring of legal narcotics they prescribed to eachother. This info got him a Scott Free divorce. Was it right? No, but didn’t make druglords, and cripple taxpayers with prison fees for a guy that had a pound of Mary Jane.

Like the kid that was complaining here that he couldn’t go off campus unless he had a ‘badge’ or a card of some sort that said he would be drug tested, and drug free. What’s the big deal? There’s a simple solution in conjunction with decriminalizing drugs. Drug testing. You don’t want American’s doing drugs? Test em.

Every day for a decade and a half, I have had to piss in a bottle and blow in a breathalyzer randomly just to show up to work. It’s an inconvenience, but hardly a daily life stopper. You just don’t do drugs and party when appropriate.

If people in the common American workforce don’t want to get drug tested, fine. Just  make most jobs rightfully like these “safety sensitive” jobs or whatever Reagan made aviation and the like to be, fall under the mandatory drug testing policy.

Some will not be able to handle it, and there my friends is the true diamond in the rough. We can stop making excuses for illegal immigrants harvesting our crops. As that would certainly not be a “safety sensitive” drug testable profession, we’ll have loads of American volunteers, safe from the oppression of government drug testing.

Damn, I should be President.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2002, 10:55:10 AM by Creamo »

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2002, 10:50:17 AM »
Creamo for President!
-SW

Offline Creamo

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« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2002, 11:04:25 AM »
Thank you!

And for the entrepreneurs that want to make viable tax drawing business ventures lucrative to the American public and yourselves, you can smoke and toke with the best of them on your free time. Private business, spawned by initiative and freewill that is the American dream is excluded from the government testing into your lives.

(A bigscreen, tax deductable, in every American home too. HDTV, government mandated)