F****Sunday TOD

[ramzey]

sry guys im piss off
Tonight was SUPER duper roadkill on TOD
I dont know why im pay for that stupidy

We wait 1 hour, TOD start 30 min late from CM'S foult. Map , planes was not set, we wait.
When CM show up 10 min before 3 EST, he spend 30 min to set up arena!!!!

But that not worse part of TOD.
Warloc keep us tower until F4U not show up over A3 /our airfield/. He order us earlier to take DT, bicose he dont know what type of enemy we spot and when. I decide to pick up 190a4 light version to have lighter plane if we spot fighters.
When enemy fly over our head commander order us to take off. And we was VOULCHED 500 yards after takeoff.
We lost all 190 a5 and 1 dora, 1 is stil alive.
We are sloghtered over runnway

Its BIG roadkill to order start when enemy attack field, mby works on MA. When u not count casulties, when u  have unlimited life. But not on TOD.

Looks like somone never read about observation corps, scouts over the coast, patrol boats , radar which one warn forces before attack.
Never read about patrol squad over airfield area.
Looks like they think then germans are totally morons, and easy give shot dwn by allies. Its not pearl harbour where airplanes try to take off under fire. Thats looks nice on movie, not in RL

I dont need apollogies i need head of man who desighn ruleas
He wast our time, will, and make me angry for AH.
If i need play like this i go to MA. Personnally i expect more from TOD.

with respect
ramzey

ps . if somone need more explanation on my point ow view, i can give u in polish, bicose my engl are not good enougt to offent somone without use offended words

[lucull]

I was the surviving 109D. There was an enemy carrier direct at the coast of A3. Looked like 8+ F4U took off there and we did wait in tower since they reached the field. 2 wings where ordered to take off and the F4Us slaughtered my squadmates and the others right after taking off.

Why do we wait for this 1 hour??? As ramzey said, ToD is not MA, so please don't make it like that. Wrong deicisions can be done, but this was the sadest moment on AH and far from being tolerable and excusable. I don't want to use bad words (but I know them ) .  We pay for this and some don't have flatrates and pay for online time too.

The guys who are responsible for this hopefully know what to do know and the guys responsible for them, too.

[Grayarea]

The TOD is a CM run event. However the players are very involved with the running of each frame.

I set rules for how each CO must design his orders. I as a CM do not have any design input beyond what each CO may or may not do.

Each frame a different set of CO build and control their respective side, it is the CO who is in charge of what happens.

This system has some advantages;

Because different players act as CO the orders vary week by week, there is no pattern to them.

It helps people learn what you have to do to work out orders for 4-10 squads in a multi hour event.

Anyone can do it so it is an open system.

There is also some disadvantages;

The style and depth of the orders varies quite a bit.

CO will try things that can get people killed if they don't work out, but can be a big advantage if they do.

With out doubt you will receive orders you are not happy with sooner or later.

So at some point you will be put in situations that you are not happy with. This is really part of the TOD experience, you have to bare in mind that some frames will be more pleasing than others to play.

I for one enjoy the wide variant that the TOD offers, you win some you lose some.

I am sorry that you did not enjoy this frame Ramzey but I am sure that the frames you enjoy far outweigh the ones you don't.

[moose]

To clear up the late-starting stuff

I was about 10 minutes late in getting into the SEA. Cable connection was down when I got home from work this morning (i work 3rd shift) and I called AT&T and they said it would be back by noon. I went to bed and woke up at 2, no connection. Ran to Staples in Hyannis, bought a cheap PCI modem, got home and got online late.

I shoulda woke up earlier And I setup the frame as quickly as possible. Won't happen next week

[ramzey]

hallo,

I for one enjoy the wide variant that the TOD offers, you win some you lose some.

Grayarea, all what u type put a blame for LW CM.

I know what CM of side should do

We not recive any orders earlier.
If he write guys stand on the runnway and wait for voulching allies, we can do that. But  som things going unreal

Like carrier in a channel couple miles from the coast?
Noone see him, its so small and easy to hide in that huge bay?
Noone see him earlier?

Main LW forces operating from airfield at the coast?

As history show each allies raid over france was fly trough hvy defence coast AA fire. Where they was?

Where was section or squad patroling coast, where was planes patroling bay?


I know its not easy to work as CM, but  errors like that in RL give u court marschal and bullet in head /or russian front;)/

Now we have lesson to chk orders of CM or not agree with him.
I know som ppl in CM are newbie, but cant exirience CM chk that orders?

Moose i join with your pain about isp, and i understand that. As i say that was not worse part.

I dont wonna look like TOD going to main arean rules.
I relly enjoy flying each TOD last half year, if he was good designed.

For me TOD and scenario are most importand part of AH, and thats reason why im here.

For me TOD must have more then pice of reality. And somtimes going to roadkill. Like today.

Im not enjoy tonight frame, guys from my squad too.

I hope thats lession will be remember for the long time.
New CM must be checked by main CM, or learn  long before he take responsibilyty for out time.
Historical background is importand too.  /lol carrier in biskay bay/
Next time when somone need  sitting duck to shot out,  call us;)
with respect
ramzey

[skernsk]

Well Ramzey, I agree with some of your objections, but not all.

First these are TOD's and NOT historical scenarios.  We do our best to write them and use as much historical info and where possible, planesm, terrains etc.

BUT

We have used many non-historical things in TOD's for GAMEPLAY purposes.  It allows the freedom to do whatever we can to enable a fun event.  Think of them being a historical setting with nothing but complete fiction once the first objectives are sent out.

As for your concerns with Greyarea being a new CM and needing his objectives checked.  You are 100% correct and "I" was the CM who looked over his objectives and ideas.  Being a new CM Greyarea was pushing the edge on what we have done and attempting to perform the d-day landing in a TOD was very brave.  We discussed a few things that "might" happen in the end we knew we would ineveitable make errors and not think of everything, but it was worth the risk to try something new.

You guys got stuck on the runway.  You also took off the wrong field when the time came...from what I understand.  The field you took off from was the main objective, which is likely why you were not supposed to be taking off from there.

My point is that we made mistakes.  We will learn from them and hopefully make a better event the next time.  Your squad also made a mistake and for that you cannot blame ALL of your anger on us CM's.

[ramzey]

Skernsk, i know we dont have all ww2 planes and somtimes  one plane must be replaced by secound.
I know that not only from AH;)

Its D-day tod? im read that first time, noone tell us that.

I understand allmost all what u do for gameplay, im not newbie in that.

Itis not historical? Scenario are not historical too. So, what is historical on AH? only planes name?

We all are take  lesson, and still learning.
Somtimes, somone must "bounce" som head's to make better world;)
We talk what was wrong, to do not make so huge mistake once again. And for better gameplay, for future members of AH comunity.

Your squad also made a mistake and for that you cannot blame ALL of your anger on us CM's.

what mistake?
We due right  CM orders? or we show up on sunday TOD?

btw imho sunday TOD is not enough announced on the BB and MA
Cane be MOTD day on 2 on MA? not only on tod bb?
As we know BB and web HTC are not allways working correct.
Last couple day not only  me have problem to open BB.

with respect

ramzey

[Loddar]

... but yesterday TOD s... !

I started with WOD from far airfield A? 5 sectors away from A7.
Nice flight in 20k, where 190A5s has the best (muahahaha) power advantages.

Then we go straight to A7. Our A5s where configured to togfight (next muahahaha) with the 4 20mm Cannons and a DT. Bomberhunt, ok, but fitersweep ? not really ?

Then we were swarmed from Spit IXs and 14s. Nice fighting to deck with no chance to win. They have better planes, they were more then us. Why we attack and don't run ? I don't know.

I don't be a good pilot and 190s are not my favourite plane, but with that we have, we don't go in a dogfight with any enemy, especially not coalt Spits.

If the CMs plan this so, that we are cannonfodder, this TOD is ok
but if not, we are the wrong force in wrong place at wrong time.

Please do not make such scenarios, nobody likes it.

[sling322]

You guys seem to be forgetting that the TOD uses squad COs to formulate the attack and defense plans.  We, as CMs outline the event and tell them what they have to attack and what they have to defend and which planes they are allowed to use.  How they equip said planes and where they assign them is up to the CO.  

It seems to me from following the threads that there are only a few folks who volunteer to CO a frame and seems that every tour its the same guys over and over.   How about instead of complaining, you volunteer and step up to be a frame CO and see how your planning skills stack up?  

These COs are volunteering their time to formulate an attack plan just like the CMs volunteer their time to set things up and make them balanced.  The balance may be off from time to time, but we are constantly working to better these events.

[Grayarea]

Originally posted by ramzey
1.We not recive any orders earlier.

2. Like carrier in a channel couple miles from the coast?
Noone see him, its so small and easy to hide in that huge bay?
Noone see him earlier?

3. As history show each allies raid over france was fly trough hvy defence coast AA fire. Where they was?

4. Where was section or squad patroling coast, where was planes patroling bay?


5. I know its not easy to work as CM, but  errors like that in RL give u court marschal and bullet in head /or russian front;)/

ramzey

1 Your orders were sent to Bikekill who is you TOD CO.

2. The carrier C58 had to be very close to A3 in order for the LVTs to make it in a reasonable time.

3 All fields have defensive AAA. This terrains is no different than many others.

4 If I had allowed the Axis to roll before the attack started, then there would have been no element of surprise. How fun is that?

5 The frame CO was in charge of setting individual orders. Whould you like a go?

If you are unaware of the current TOD then I suggest you read the TOD forum, which has this information in it.

[skernsk]

Itis not historical? Scenario are not historical too. So, what is historical on AH? only planes name?

It is BASED on a historical event but I would say that it is not 100% historical.  You made mention of a CV close to shore...it was not historical, yet in TOD's we will do that in order to allow the LVT's to get to shore in a shorter amount of time.

You complain about it, but we will do it again if w2e have to in order to make the frame work in the 2hr time limit.

You have every right to complain and let us know when you are unhappy.  We will take the critisizm and try and fix it for next time.  


Its D-day tod? im read that first time, noone tell us that.

If you go back to the thread where Greyarea asked you to pick sides you will see the complete write-up for the event.

 

[lucull]

Why are we (308 RAF) so angry?

1. There was a delay of 30mins and most of us have been there 30mins before normal starttime. That makes 1 hour sitting in tower. Compared to a flight time of ø1min that really sucks.

2. We were ordered to intercept buffs with 4x190A-5 and 2x190D-9 100% fuel + DT. Why did we have to wait in tower for the attackers and why have we been ordered to take off from an attacked field? To point it out. We were sitting several minutes after start in tower. Who is responsible for that? COs or CMs?

3. Did allied COs know that enemy carriers were that close to the coast? Why did we take off there as buff interceptors? Getting the LVTs in short time there is one reason, but an enemy carrier that near makes it very easy to attack the bases. Gameplay, okay, but you ruined the more important part that way. Think of it.

If all that was the way you wanted it (except #1) to make it fun, you missed the words FOR ALL. I'm sure the attackers of A3 had great fun. My squad (except me) was killed right after takeoff. We really had no fun!!! We had no chance at all.
If this is your opinion of surprise attack, you are as wrong as someone can be.

I'm sure you will make better next time, because it can't be worse for us. Mistakes have been done and we all will learn of them.

Better luck next time.

[sling322]

Originally posted by lucull
Why are we (308 RAF) so angry?

1. There was a delay of 30mins and most of us have been there 30mins before normal starttime. That makes 1 hour sitting in tower. Compared to a flight time of ø1min that really sucks.

This has been addressed by Moose.  He had a cable outage that was supposed to be repaired before the frame started.  It didnt get fixed and he had to go to the store to buy a modem so that he could use a dialup service.  This delayed the setup.

2. We were ordered to intercept buffs with 4x190A-5 and 2x190D-9 100% fuel + DT. Why did we have to wait in tower for the attackers and why have we been ordered to take off from an attacked field? To point it out. We were sitting several minutes after start in tower. Who is responsible for that? COs or CMs?

Warloc has addressed this in another thread also.  Apparently he gave you the wrong field number to take off from.  He made a mistake and has already apologized for it.

3. Did allied COs know that enemy carriers were that close to the coast? Why did we take off there as buff interceptors? Getting the LVTs in short time there is one reason, but an enemy carrier that near makes it very easy to attack the bases. Gameplay, okay, but you ruined the more important part that way. Think of it.

Skernsk just addressed this and stated that the CV has to be that close for the sake of the LVTs involved.  It may make the flight for attackers shorter, but in the name of gameplay balance, you have to make adjustments somewhere.  In order to have the LVTs involved, the CV proximity is a necessary evil.  Looking back, maybe there should have been a provision to not allow any aircraft to up from that CV.

If all that was the way you wanted it (except #1) to make it fun, you missed the words FOR ALL. I'm sure the attackers of A3 had great fun. My squad (except me) was killed right after takeoff. We really had no fun!!! We had no chance at all.

Once again...a mistake was made in deciding which field for you to take off from.  A regrettable one, but still something which we as CMs have no control over.

By the way, still looking forward to seeing the 308th as CO for a frame sometime.

[lucull]

I know that moose is not responsible for his ISPs troubles. Anyway I just pointed out the fact of waiting 1 hour for being killed in 1 minute.

Now I know what was the mistake. toejam happens warloc and we will all enjoy the frame 3 together

The combination of waiting in tower after frame start at the wrong field with enemy carrier close to the field and attacking F4Us were the reasons for the useless wipe out of two squads (except me:D ).

Everybody is a bit cleverer now

[AndyH]

Well it looks like I am the only Axis pilot who enjoyed this frame, we were not sure what to expect so shift (WOD CO for this TOD) asked us to load maximum armament. I would have done the same.

We took of up north and Warloc could see that the action was down south, so we followed his orders to fly towards A3.

Warloc could see that he had made a mistake launching so many planes from a field under attack, but giving him a hard time about it isn't going to get us anywhere.

We looked for buffs over A7, and tried to avoid the fighters, but we couldn't find any. Warloc asked us to engage the fighers north of A7, some were co-alt and some were a wee bit lower. We got stuck in but as Loddar said we were not in the right plane to get into a dogfight with spits.

I just kept BnZ them and didn't have a problem keeping them off my six, all of our squad was wiped out except me but a lot of spits were in the water also.

Bushers squad came down to help us, and eventualy the spits were all dead or had run away.

I was then vectored to an incoming C47 by a squad mate who had just bailed, so we saved A7 from the allied invasion.