Tour 31 Fighter vs Fighter stats

[Karnak]

Wotan said:

"Lalalalalalalalala. I won't listen to what people are saying and I'll just keep stating this argument that has absolutely nothing to do with anything and claim that I have refuted them. Lalalalalalalala"

[Wotan]

the stats prove you both wrong. Perks still out preform the other planes.

You both want to hide behind a icon.  

Its the same as that guy who quit ah because he said c47s kept trying to ram his goon.

Every where I go in the main folks are trying to kill me. Perked or unperked its all the same.

But given yours and karnaks arguement about perk icons you would think , give your assumptions, that perk planes would be getting gangbanged all over the place.

I addressed your point and the stats prove you wrong. You thenm rationalize this with "well people fly perks differently so there k/d is high" of course they do but they also fly non-perks more reckless.

[Lazerus]

Originally posted by Innominate
 People WILL dive from 20000feet to kill a perk plane when there are plenty of other targets around.  Remove the perk tags.

I will dive from 20,000ft to kill a spit/la7/nik...and sometimes a p51. I like the tags:D

[Innominate]

Wotan, stop cut and pasting replies, and try reading the post.

The 190D9 had a better k/d than the f4u4.  The current F4U-4 k/d ratio is less than 1.0.

Do I want to hide behind the tags?  Of course.
I want to hide behind the tags the same as the spit9, the 109(pick a model), the dora, the same as the chog, the fm2, etc.

"If you remove the perk tags, then you'll have to treat every plane as if it were really plane X!"
We already have to do this with the 190s, 109s, and spitfires.  Having to do it with one more RARE spit, or one more RARE f4u is little different.

They SHOULD be perked, they SHOULD be rare, they SHOULD be fun to fly.

[Karnak]

Wotan,

The stats do no such thing.

For the stats to do such a thing the more expensive the perk plane was, the higher it's K/D ratio would be given that perk price is determined by capability.  That simply is not the case.  At the very least the perk planes should all be at the very top of the K/D ratio chart, which they are not.

Me 262:  4.009
Tempest: 3.622
F4U-1C: 2.108
Fw 190D-9: 1.654
F4U-4: 1.612
P-47D-11: 1.541
Ta 152H: 1.435
Spitfire Mk XIV: 1.404

If your claim were true the K/D ratio order would usually be something like this:

Me262
Tempest
Spitfire Mk XIV
F4U-4
Ta152H-1
F4U-1C
Fw190D-9
Ect, ect.

But it has never been.


Now, the P-47D-11 is flown by a small group of skilled players so its numbers are low, and its K/D ratio is easily inflated just like the Ki-61's in past Tours.

The Fw190D-9 and Ta152H-1 give us a much better argument.  The Fw190D-9 is flown often enough to weed out too much effect by a few very skilled individuals, further, those same skilled individuals are the most likely pilots of the Ta152H-1.  Despite this, and despite the Ta152H-1's perk price which should act as incentive to live, the Fw190D-9 handily bests it in terms of K/D ratio.

A point which strengthens the anonymity being useful to a perk plane's survival is the F4U-1C.  Nobody would reasonably argue that the F4U-1C is more survivable than the F4U-4, Spitfire Mk XIV ot Ta152H-1 due to its performance.  Yet it has both significantly higher usage (something that normally drives down K/D ratios as more average pilots use it) and a higher K/D ratio.  Why?


Your posts do not explain any of this.

My first explaination did, and still does.  You have not posted anything that contradicts or invalidates my statements.

Obviously people in perk planes will try to stay alive more than people in free planes, and due to this perk planes will always be in the top 10 as far as K/D ratios go.

Don't you find it curious that the three perk planes with the lowest K/D ratio, even being bested by free planes, happen to be the three that are both tagged as perk planes and slower than many of the free fighters?

Or do you simply chalk it up to players who like the F4U-4, Ta152H-1 and Spitfire Mk XIV being less skilled?

That answer is simply to pat for me to believe.


(Note: I do not think that any perk planes should be unperked.  Any argument in regards to that is irrelevant when directed at me as I have never argued for it)

[Wotan]

perk values arent assigned based on performance, ht said that. So your whole premise is wrong to start with.

So if you expect because a plane has a perk value it should automatically be great planes or that its performance should match its perk value then you are wrong.

But the fact is, if I take your claim as to gangbang tags, that this gangbanging ought be be reflected in the k/d. Its not perk planes perform above most other planes. Even when "gangbanged"

Yes they are flown more cautiously, but non-perk rides are flown equally more reckless. So this pretty much offsets. You also have guys who have no significant time in any of the perk planes getting ito one thinking like you do. That perk value is related performance. They enter the fight and realize it aint the plane, its the pilot.

Inomin8 says that the reason the chog has a 2 to 1k/d is because its perk tag is hidden. It may help but I would bet the hispanos are more to do with it. The chog when it got got 20% of the kills had an above average k/d. It was the most flown plane in any game I have played. It doesnt perform better then the dhog it just has them hizookas.

The chog still kills way more then the other perks even at a value of 8 (or is it 10?). But folks realized that the dhog (with the exception of the hispanos) was as capable as the chog. We got the f6f, f4u-1 and fm2 and f4f.  

Ofcourse guys chase a perk tag, but each plane was designed and flown in a certain way. If you think because a 262 is 200 perks that you can furball with it (after if its 200 perk its got to be a great plane) you would be wrong. The fm matters and the way you fly it matters. If not we can go play fa3.

Folks are flying perk planes, they are getting kills and they are surviving. If you argue "they dont get used enough" then that flies in the face of why they are perked to begin with. That is to minimize their usage.

I think their usage is fine. They are used more then they would be in an rps and arent used enough to impact the main. A perfect match imho.

The perk system works.

Whether or not you have fun in it is up to you. If you are saying you cant have fun because people are trying to kill you then dont fly it. People try to kill me no matter what plane I am in.

You want to be able to hide your plane behind the icon tag so you can sneak up on folks. Instead of taking the plane up and just having fun with it you worry about its perk value as if perk themselves had any value. You loose umm, you get more.

HT has it right the perk system works well.

[Wotan]

also comparing the d9 to anything will give you skewed results. My squad mate heinkel had a k/d of 33 to 1. Check just my squads stats in the d9 we hold k/d way higher then the overall average. Does this mean we are great or the d9 itself is great, no it means we fly it to its capabilities.

The d11 is flown by a squad of great pilots who fly the plane to its limits as well.

The difference between an f4u-4 and the chog, the chogs 8 points and has 4 hizookas.

Reducing the cost of the f4u-4 would get it used more but its usage is fine.

So much for your logic..........

[Wotan]

(Note: I do not think that any perk planes should be unperked. Any argument in regards to that is irrelevant when directed at me as I have never argued for it)

Wotan,

I thought I had made the point. I do fly aircraft with high ENY values and I do kill aircraft with low ENY values. This is an idiotic point you seem to think you're using against me. It is all moot and doesn't matter as I can fly any aircraft in the game, I just don't see the point of perk planes other than the Me262 and F4U-1C.

Dont lie to me karnak, you never said this?

[Urchin]

He didn't mean they shouldnt be perked, he meant that he doesn't see the point in flying them.

[Wotan]

Karnak can tell me what he meant

I just don't see the point of perk planes other than the Me262 and F4U-1C.

It could also mean any point in having them altogether. Since I dont see that he flew the chog in a long time it tends to support me. But he can tell me.

Dont give him any ideas let him think up his own rationale as to what he meant.

I do fly aircraft with high ENY values and I do kill aircraft with low ENY values. This is an idiotic point you seem to think you're using against me.

I checked this statement as well he didnt kill very many lo eny planes either. So who knows what the hell he meant.

[Revvin]

Ah so this is why the perk system is so much better than an RPS..I mean look everyone agree's with the way it works

[Duedel]

thx Deja love ur work

[beet1e]

This is why the chog was perked. It got 20% of the kills in the main. Its impact was such that (even with a modest k/d) that ht decided to perk it.

and

And look at that P-47D-11. Time to perk it.

I think one of the things that needs to be understood is that the AH subscribership contains a large proportion of turkey shooters whose primary ACM strategy is the HO. I can well imagine that if the C-Hog was unperked, every second plane would be a C-Hog. When perked, an unskilled player wont fly it - probably because he doesn't have the skill to rack up enough perk points, so he'll fly a N1K or LA7 instead. These guys rarely RTB. By perking the C-Hog, it ensures that the turkey shooters will go elsewhere, leaving the C-Hog to be flown properly, by guys like me. :D:D:D:D

The P47 (any of them) is another good example of a plane against which the HO is inadvisable. The P47 will win most of the time.

Keep the perk system to stop the arena filling with Tempests/262s, but I do feel that most perk planes are outrageously overvalued. The C-Hog is the only one worth paying for.

[-ammo-]

Originally posted by beet1e

The P47 (any of them) is another good example of a plane against which the HO is inadvisable. The P47 will win most of the time.
 

Revvin--

on this note of your post. That just is not true.  The difference in a HO, is the guy that shoots the best and the fastest.  Sure against a 202 or a hurri 1, the P-47 has the best odds. But agaisnt a 190, 109, etc..  its down to the pilot and luck.

[Innominate]

Ok wotan, let me sum it up in two lines.

If you fly an F4U-4 carefully, you will do fairly well, you will get kills, and you will get home.
If you fly a p51d, a dora, an A-5, ANYTHING, as if it were a perk plane, you will do BETTER than in the f4u4.

This is because of the gangbang tags.  Do you not agree with this?