Author Topic: Stick Stirring—is it legit?  (Read 585 times)

Offline popeye

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3708
Stick Stirring—is it legit?
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2002, 12:39:06 PM »
Whatever else can be said about the 1.03 flight model, stick stirring was nonexistent.  I guess it was added in 1.04 for the sake of realism.
KONG

Where is Major Kong?!?

Offline Minotaur

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 130
Stick Stirring—is it legit?
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2002, 12:43:44 PM »
First time I saw this it was Citabria doing it.

I learned it and yes it works well....

Offline AKSWulfe

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3812
Stick Stirring—is it legit?
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2002, 01:03:31 PM »
Popeye, that's called selective memory in the psychiatric world.

Stick stirring was indeed possible in 1.03 and before, and it happened... there was just far fewer people back there who didn't understand ACM... so they didn't have to resort to it.
-SW

Offline Puck

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2980
Stick Stirring—is it legit?
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2002, 01:41:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MWHUN



Okay I may be using incompatible word here to describe it—I thought a wobble was the same thing as what I heard referred to as stick stirring… my wobble is accomplished more by rudder control than by stick control…


Quite a bit of that is jamming your rudder to the stops in uncoodinated flight to bleed E in a hurry.  It can be used to prevent an overshoot or encourage one, depending on where you are, and was not at all uncommon, even in WWII, to bleed speed for landings.  The Wobble you refer to, I think, involves slamming your rudder to the stops alternatly so you don't significantly change your flight path.
//c coad  c coad run  run coad run
main (){char _[]={"S~||(iuv{nkx%K9Y$hzhhd\x0c"},__
,___=1;for(__=___>>___;__<((___<<___<<___<<___<<___
)+(___<<___<<___<<___)-___);__+=___)putchar((_[__
])+(__/((___<<___)+___))-((___&

Offline bigUC

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 438
Stick Stirring—is it legit?
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2002, 02:04:47 PM »
I've been accused of this every now and then - I have actually never seen it myself...  what i HAVE seen is the jinx - i.e. throwing peoples aim off, sideslipping and barrelrolls.  

To accuse someone of stick stirring because they spent all ammo in their spit ix trying to hit a rolling & jinxing fw190 imo shows a lack of  ACM knowledge.  

I'm frankly not sure if such a thing really exists.
Kurt is winking at U!

Offline Manedew

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1080
Stick Stirring—is it legit?
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2002, 02:08:02 PM »
hehe Levi i haven't flowen the tiffie  much in a year or so

kind weend off that 'floppy' move

(you have to get a 'flop' going to stall a wing in the tiffie.. then it will roll) heh heh     use your torque and the 'flop' snap-roll you'll live in the tiffie (cause it acclerates like nobodys bussniess)

but i've lost my touch for it & I wouldn't call it 'stiring'/'floping' ... just trying to get around horrible rollrate of tiffie.

guess you gave up on the tiffie too (damn squid) :D
maybe not gave up .. i'd say outgrew :)

Offline popeye

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3708
Stick Stirring—is it legit?
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2002, 02:27:48 PM »
Beg to differ, SW.  I distinctly remember appreciating the lack of stick stirring, and thinking that it was some compensation for the other "aspects" of the flight model.  It was so easy to burn E in 1.03 that any flip flopping would quickly leave the fish wallowing in shallow water, if not augered in.
KONG

Where is Major Kong?!?

Offline SKurj

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3630
Stick Stirring—is it legit?
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2002, 03:40:20 PM »
You can snap roll the 190... it will appear to be a 'floppy fish' to the guy behind u....
It will stall a wing and flip over far faster than the net can keep up



SKurj

Offline AKcurly

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1509
Re: Stick Stirring—is it legit?
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2002, 03:44:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MWHUN
Well I was retired after AW went off-line until I was dragged out of retirement by my squadies… I logged onto AH a few months ago and unfortunately/fortunately got hooked.  Over the years I pretty much have seen every type of “move” out there—so I thought—as I ran up across some of the better sticks in AH I saw a move that I had never encountered before.  It was a crazy wobble move where they were just “flopping” around in front of me. :eek:
 


MWHun, I see a move occasionally where they deliberately cause the plane to be out of control in all 3 planes of motion.  It's not limited to 190s - I've seen it in all planes.  It has a very simple counter:  Since they are bleeding E like there's no tomorrow, reduce your throttle and follow along.  They have to enter normal flight (or crash.)  Kill them when they stop the nonsense - they are slow and right in front of you.

curly

Offline runny

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 108
Stick Stirring—is it legit?
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2002, 04:15:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sikboy
In many cases "stick stirring" is a scapegoat used by people who don't know how they just got shot down.

I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, but I would wager that anyone who often uses a barrell roll to force an overshoot has probably been accused of stick stirring.

-Sik


C'mon, be a man, Sikboy!  You really mean that cheater Leviathn, and we all know that!

Offline Kweassa

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6425
Stick Stirring—is it legit?
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2002, 07:28:21 PM »
It is kind of hard to say because we don't have any visual reference to what we are talking about.

 I've seen wild jinking, impressive figure-8 rolling, rolls with wild rudder inputs, short/wide radius high-speed barrel rolls, rolls with high negative G input, and last but not the least, stick-stirring.

 Usually all of the above look simular, especially when the relative connection between you and your attacker isn't all that good. The enemy plane slows down in a very quick rate, with its three flight axis(yaw, pitch, roll) not matching its flight path - which is very confusing and discomforting to watch in the attacker's position. The enemy plane is closing rapidly, but you can't get a bearing on the deflection angle so you get wildly confused where to aim at... and then, you overshoot the enemy and tend to think "something's not right".

 This is especially true when rolls come with negative G inputs.. I've been accused of stick stirring in the Bf109G(a plane with excellent -G response, but you can't say it has a good roll rate). In truth, what I did was a combination of few maneuvers with absolutely calm stick input: skidding  with high rudder input, outside half-barrel roll, reverse the direction of the out-side barrel roll, and then semi-stall out and drop down into a split-S. To the guy attacking I have a good guess how it might have looked like.. the 109 yaw axis changes, not matching the flight path... and then it enters into a barrel roll with its belly outside(very weird to look at), then the direction changes, and suddenly it moves under the nose into a split-S. The guy was probably trying hard to find an aiming point, failed, and watched helplessly as I disappeared under his nose in a split-S.

 Therefore, in most cases, I don't think we can say which is stick-stirring and which is not.

 Though stick-stirring differs a bit when you examine it closely(the three axis doesn't match the flight path, but the position of the wing tips change in a warping manner... it would roll crazy 90~180 degrees with warp... its different from just "very fast rolls" you would see on a 190), most cases we encounter would be just stick-stirring(yes) in a "legitimate" range. I see a lot of this in newbie pilots I target doing this, moving controls wildly, but not in the manner which would produce micro warps that move the wingtips all over the place.

Offline HeLLcAt

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 375
      • http://www.myspace.com/xiZm04
Stick Stirring—is it legit?
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2002, 07:41:45 PM »
How can you say stick stirring is cheating? Whatever you have to do in the MA to survive is legit. It's like 1 time I was fighting this guy and he said only fight with using 75% throttle...im like no sorry! and he said I cheated. There was this other guy that accused me of cheating because my F6F outmanuevered him. I use stick stirring 1nce in a blue moon. I don't like to use it because you lose a tremendous amount of speed...and in my case...me flying the F6F doesn't help either. I think any manuever is legit in AH...to survive in the MA is a task in itself, now if people tell you that you can't do a manuever than thats cheap in itself. ALL!

~Wildkat/BlueiceJ~

Offline moose

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2702
      • http://www.ccrhl.com
Stick Stirring—is it legit?
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2002, 08:56:25 PM »
Someone who is doing the floppy donkey thing is just leaving themselves even more vulnerable in my book

I just wait and throttle back and wait for em to roll across the gunsight
<----ASSASSINS---->

Offline Wilbus

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4472
Stick Stirring—is it legit?
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2002, 03:47:46 AM »
No it's not legit, it's taking advantages of the flaws of programming and internet connectivity.
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline Samm

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 980
Stick Stirring—is it legit?
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2002, 06:25:54 AM »
Warp inducing measures are for smegmavores .