Typhoon dweeb wants FM-2 perked!!??

[sling322]

Originally posted by hazed-
seems to me that the f4f and fm2 should in no way match the zero in turns and I must say ive never seen it happen.
is it true that in AH it can??

seems to me every american plane in this game performs to some kind of propaganda report on their performance? when you read about them in combat reports you hear stories like them having to engage in numbers because it was deadly to turn with the japanese planes etc but it rarely seems to match what we see in AH.I have to say i think HTC being an american company catering for american players has much to do with it.I dont know if its overmodelling of their fighters or undermodelling of other nations fighters but there can be little doubt that the american planes in this game have the top performers in most areas.I only hope it has some ring of truth to it(fm2 outturning zeros? etc) but i suspect its just a tweak here and there to please the americans customers.sorry thats just the way it appears to me.

look at the difference in performance in AH to the other simulators like CFS, IL2 etc.The difference is quite enourmous so someone must be wrong.If i saw a few really badly performing areas in AH i might just suspect all thos other games have it wrong but after seeing how much damage the f6fs and f4fs can take, how easy they are to fly compared to LW planes, the way they all seem to climb like love sick angels with over 3000 lbs of ordinance etc I begin to suspect this isnt really the case.

I have started to fly more allied stuff in AH purely because i got sick of the things that happen flying LW planes that frustrate and annoy.especially weak wing tips/ engine oil / radiators, 50 cal super guns vs super weak 13mm etc and Ive come to regard AH as a game rather than a sim.I try to ignore all the stuff on the bbs now claiming its all perfectly correct too, I have books written by british pilots about LW planes and american bomber crews that seem to contradict what i see in AH, but ive given up trying to see why.It just gets even more frustrating.

Im looking forward to seeing how the shooting star outperforms the me262 in AH (lol), I bet it will dont you?

LOL Hazed....WTG!!

You have uncovered the conspiracy.

Better watch out for the black helicopters and dont forget to wear your aluminum foil hat when you go out today.

[poopster]

self-appointed BBS police

Ouch !! that's a harsh term..

I'm just keeping my eye on the CAPITALS..

Someone has to do it..

I was just man enough to step up to the plate..

Carry on, not seeing a problem here..

Hazed just head over to WB, there's enough posts on FM's over there to keep the most avid quibbler busy for years...

Bad read though, unless your one of the quibblers. Make sure you have oodles of sourses, and brush up on your math. There are a few quibblers there that know there stuff. Ho Hun for example.

And as a side, you can talk ballistics. But as with FM's do your homework. They have a few years on ya

[hazed-]

I think you guys missed my point.

I dont care what you think about what i said.This is how my mind is made up after almost 3 years of playing AH.If you think different then fine no problem.I didnt say this because im annoyed or demanding change etc.Its just how AH seems to me and a few others i have spoken to.

what i will still say is AH is the best online flight GAME.Ive accepted that the aircraft in it are made to match a set of data that HTC have and thats it.The fact that it doesnt tie in with other information i have read or books on air combat is pretty much a mute point.If you choose to believe AH is exactly accurate then good for you, enjoy it.I choose to play it as its the best online game of its type for overall enjoyment but not necessarily the most accurate for models.

After playing for years with everyone on the bb claiming this is exactly as they were and then seeing adustment after adustment to models /behaviour etc by HTC you cant help but come to realise that no computer model is perfectly accurate, I dont care how many times people show charts etc for data to prove HTC is right because the simple fact of the matter is an error in the programme can make the data irrelevent.

think about it.

Myself i choose to believe accounts from the people that flew them and the books like

'combat crew' by john comer
'wings of the luftwaffe' captain eric brown cbe,dsc afc rn.
'the first and the last' Adolf Galland
'focke wulf aces of the western front' john weal
'p40 aces of north africa' carl molesworth
'focke wulf 190 in combat' Alfred price
'JG26' Donald L.Caldwell

and many others which allow you to build a clearer picture about what the aircraft I tend to like, ie LW planes really performed like.
and believe me im not out to boast they were the best or any crap like that but I do know from what ive read they were a bit better than what we have in AH.

[brendo]

Widewing, thanks for your indepth, historical info.

A good read!

[beet1e]

How often have we heard the above? It seems to me that whenever a guy in a lesser plane kills an über plane, it's down to *skill*. And when said über plane is killed, its pilot is whining about flight model porkage, game suckage, whatever. My friend Jedi over on the Warbirds AGW had this to say to a guy who was whining about flight models under similar circumstances.

The REALLY funny thing about this discussion is that 99.9% of you guys would agree that the "deciding factor" in a dogfight is the skill of the PILOT, i.e. YOU. "It's the man, not the machine," right Chuck? But then every one of you uses an example of how you outturned some guy in what is supposed to be a "better turning" plane, (or, more likely, YOU were outturned by some guy in what was supposed to be a "worse turning" plane) and then immediately jump to the conclusion that the PLANE is the thing that's porked, not his tactics, or yours.

So what happened to pilot skill? Or was every guy you outturned just as much of an "aviation God" as YOU are?  (Of course, it's just a little bit silly to argue about a situation you really shouldn't be stupid enough to get into in the first place --low alt flat turnfight in late war planes-- if you're REALLY so "experienced" that we should take your "skill" as a given, but let's not look at THAT too closely, shall we?)  

Funny how the "ancient truths" of flightsimdom get switched off whenever we need to "prove" some agenda, eh?

I struggle to see what the big deal is here, as one who has shot and killed an Me262 from my humble Hurri-2. That incident occurred because the 262 had established a bounce pattern, and I knew where to wait for him next time he zoomed up. Seems like the FM2 pilot in the above scenario v the Typhoon made a similar judgement.

Chances are, all the flight models are porked in some way. So STFU, and get on with the game!

[Imp]

At the risk of sounding like a cheerleader I have to say I agree 100% with beet1e

Energy is very important in AtA combat the Typh pilot didnt use it well or maybe he positioned himself badly and got is bellybutton shot up

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Imp
I the risk of sounding like a cheerleader I have to say I agree 100% with beet1e

Energy is very important in AtA combat the Typh pilot didnt use it well or maybe he positioned himself badly and got is bellybutton shot up

Here’s an example of how to do it right:

Last evening the Knits were pressing us pretty hard (Rooks could only muster about 50 players). We had about 8 aircraft up defending a field. Several Knits came in at about 10k, but one Typhoon arrived at 15k. As the lower aircraft dropped in on the field, virtually all of the defensive fighters followed them down. I was at 8k climbing in my FM-2 and elected to continue doing so. Once the Tiffy pilot saw the fighter coverage down on the deck, he rolled in. At very high speed, he made for the VH. I rolled in too, but had only about 150 mph in the bank, so I angled to intercept him on his pullout. Well, the Tiffy was clearly going too fast to have a hope of being precise with his rockets, and most, if not all, missed the VH. However, he was smart and did not immediately pull into a steep climb. All I could muster was a sharp angle deflection shot at about 600 yards. I got a few strikes, but nothing that did visible damage. Staying low for about 5k, the Tiffy extended away from the field, and then zoomed up to altitude. He did it right, and with practice will be able to get more rockets on target.

My regards,

Widewing

[deSelys]

Gee Widewing thanks for this valuable lecture about how to attack a VH....

[Widewing]

Originally posted by deSelys
Gee Widewing thanks for this valuable lecture about how to attack a VH....

deSelys, based upon the numbers posted in your last 10 tours, clearly an expert on your level has no need for such examples...

Widewing

[deSelys]

Well, at least I have a sex life!

[H. Godwineson]

In tests conducted in late 1944 between an FM-2 and a Zero 25 the NAS at Patuxent discovered the following:

The FM-2's turning circle at low speeds was very similar to that of the Zero.  The Zero needed eight and a half full turns to gain a killing shot on the FM-2.  The high-speed turning circle of the FM-2 was superior to that of the Zero. (paraphrased)

Ergo, under the right conditions, the FM-2 had the ability to "outturn" the Zero.

Regards, Shuckins

[Widewing]

Originally posted by deSelys
Well, at least I have a sex life!

Ah, so you're ambidextrous!

Widewing

[deSelys]

You know, for most people, sex is an activity involving (at least ) 2 persons.

Of course, with 128+ hours online last month and already 45+ hours bagged this month, I understand you don't have much time for anything else...

(yup, stats pages cut both ways...)

[Widewing]

Originally posted by deSelys
You know, for most people, sex is an activity involving (at least ) 2 persons.
 

I think that in your case, you may need to be more specific...

Why is it that when faced with the emptiness of their own words, some people feel compelled to engage in adhoc personal attacks?

Widewing

[deSelys]

Wide,

And how empty is to ignore one's comment because his 'score' is less than yours?

And how empty is it to say 'Wide, you don't even deserve a reply because you're only ranked 303th in the attack damage/death+1 score while I'm ranked 1st!' (please check...it's pretty amazing how the score system computes ranking...).

Lectures from people I don't consider as experts, and especially when I haven't asked for, particularly annoy me. So, if you think you've discovered the Holy Grail of ACM in the 'flat-out-on-the-deck-extension-after-a-divebomb-attack'...do I have to continue?

-this paragraph was edited-
Widewing, I hadn't realized your age until I just checked your profile. Honestly, and without trying to offense you, I thought you were much younger. Hence the tone of my previous post, and this edit.
Please accept my sincere apologies if I hurted you.

This being said, I still maintain that

1) your 'look-at-my-skills' posts don't do you much good in this community...IMHO.
2) there are other things in life than your AH score. There certainly are other thing in life than my AH score.

-end of edit-

Oh, btw, I don't feel the FM2 should be perked. But I think its ENY value should be lowered to around 25 (like the A6M5). It is a really easy plane to fly and fight in: I bagged 4 kills in it during my 1st sortie....and as you pointed out I am a dweeb.