Is it time for Registration Fees?

[Lephturn]

Think about it, it would be very time consuming just to manage the deposit/fee system, let alone co-ordinate it with the rest of the scenario.  It's not reasonable to expect HTC to implement something like that IMO.

What can be done is for players to be made responsible for their actions.  Simply put, keep a black-list.  Have a regular system of primary and reserve pilots, and work out a system whereby the FL's remind folks and ask for updates a couple of times before the frame, dropping anybody for reserve that doesn't respond in the affirmative.  Then the FL's keep track of who doesn't show despite confirming.  If you no-show after confirming say 3 times, you go on the black-list for the next event and can't be a primary.  If the FL's are pro-active, and people know there will be consequenses of not showing up without notice, it should curb this behaviour.  Yep, it could be network issues that get you black-listed... but then if your connection isn't solid, you should discover this in practices and such before the event, and not confirm.  If there is mass network problems or a server dump, then of course you don't black-list everybody.   Each event will also only black-list you for the next scenario, so it wouldn't be a permanent thing.  Even if you got black-listed, you could still be a reserve pilot or a walk-on and fly, it just keeps you from registering as a primary.

That's my suggestion.  Honestly I think pro-active and organized flight leaders would help more than the threat of black-listing.

[Midnight]

Lephturn,

What you are suggesting is even more 'administrative' than the system I suggest. With that, you would have to rely on the FLs to keep track and then report to the central 'black-list' administrator on who needs to go on the list. Then the administrator would have to keep a record of that and compare it against people who sign up for the next scenario. Many of those people may have switched userID in the mean time, so they get in anyway. Then you have the guys who would be whining that they got black listed for no reason, that they tried to show up, but the FL didn't like them and never sent them any Emails or gave them a chance. Then there would have to be arbitration hearings so everyone could state their case.

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I'm not trying to ruffle anyone's feathers here, just making a suggestion that could help. No one says that it would have to be $5.00 either. Make it $2.00, maybe even $1.00. The whole point I am trying to make is that there should be some way for the hard-core scenario pilots to be able to sign up first and get in to a slot they really want to have, then let everyone else (the more casual players) sign up and take the rest of the open spots.

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Personally, I don't see why the whole thing isn't a little more like organized sports leagues. Prior to registration, you get your team together. When registration opens, you go down and sign up your whole team (and pay registration fees). Players that do not have a team can be put on an 'available' list and then chosen by teams looking for additional players. If enough guys are on the 'available' list, they can all get together and make their own team to register.

Just because this is an on-line game, people have this thing about it's not fair and should all be open. When it comes right down to it, your scenario 'squadron' is your team, and your FL is your team captain. Other players should be able to depend on you to show up for practice and make in time for game day. If they can't, you shouldn't even ask to join the team.

[gofaster]

Charge for registration?  I don't think so.

In WW2, pilots flew the planes that were assigned to them.  The only choice they had was single engine or multi-engine.   Maybe they got a P-40, maybe they got a P-51.  Think of aircraft assignments as being another realism feature of a scenario.

Register for the scenario and accept what's assigned to you... and you'll like it, mister!

[gofaster]

Originally posted by Midnight
When it comes right down to it, your scenario 'squadron' is your team, and your FL is your team captain. Other players should be able to depend on you to show up for practice and make in time for game day. If they can't, you shouldn't even ask to join the team.

Yeah! What he said!

[jordi]

Personally, I don't see why the whole thing isn't a little more like organized sports leagues. Prior to registration, you get your team together. When registration opens, you go down and sign up your whole team (and pay registration fees). Players that do not have a team can be put on an 'available' list and then chosen by teams looking for additional players. If enough guys are on the 'available' list, they can all get together and make their own team to register.

Just because this is an on-line game, people have this thing about it's not fair and should all be open. When it comes right down to it, your scenario 'squadron' is your team, and your FL is your team captain. Other players should be able to depend on you to show up for practice and make in time for game day. If they can't, you shouldn't even ask to join the team.


__________________
Wing up, Get kills, Be happy!

Major Midnight - CO

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This is the DIFFERENCE between TOD's and Scenarios.

TOD's are designed around COMMITED Squads who plan to show up with SET amount of Players. These squads CAN have Guest pilots tag along if they so choose to fly. A group of pilots who are not in squads could form a TOD Only squad and fly together.

Scenarios are geared more toward the General masses. Those that wish to participate in a Large event but not be tied down to belonging to a set TOD or MA squad to be able to fly in it.

I think we ALL AGREE with your last statement. If you sign up to participate you should stand behind your commitment and show up. Even if that means you did not get the ride you wanted.

[MrLars]

Not only no but HELL NO.

Opening a can of worms like this would make the opening of Pandoras box pale in comparison.

[Midnight]

Before I put my foot into my mouth, I'll back away from this debate.

I can see there are clearly holes in my theory, but it doesn't seem like they are going to get patched up in this forum

However, I will say that, at least in my opinion, the Scenarios are the bigger, better events when compared to TODs, especially when the scenarios have limited A/C that get depleted, or the availability of newer A/C is dependant on the outcome of previous frames. We don't get that kind of thing in TOD.

[Nash]

I'm prolly gonna get in so much toejam for this but....

Here's what the Scenario team was attempting to develop before we had to put it on hold due to... uh... developments.

Just so it's clear - this is *not* something that's going into effect. Only if I had my way would it be...

But I'd like to get your input before I annoy our new HTC liason Skuzzy to death with it.

Have a look... I'd love to hear your comments/suggestions etc.

http://modena.intergate.ca/personal/cwharton/sbm/squad/reg1.html

[Exile]

hehe ... damn Nash, you just can't let this go can ya?

I wish you had been at the CON and seen how fast Hitech said "no" when this was brought up.

Have a little faith man.

[SOB]

One option that would be nice on the signup page for scenarios is the option to opt-out of being a reserve pilot (ie: all or nothing).  The amount of free time that I have in my life has diminished considerably in the last several months, and will get even smaller starting next week.  If I'm going to dedicate my time to a scenario I want a guaranteed spot...if I can't get one, I'd rather use my free time for other important things in my life.


SOB

[sling322]

I know what you want Midnight, and unfortunately it aint gonna happen.  We had this discussion at the con when the CMs and the HTC crew sat down for a little pow-wow.  By HTC's decision, scenarios are for the masses and will be first come first serve...especially once the new registration system is finished and put into place.  

The squad events, like the TOD are catered to squads and HTC sees no reason to cater to squads in large scenario events.  When we start doing that, we basically are running the same event.  The scenarios become huge TODs at that point, and that is not what HTC wants to happen.

As for your point SOB, you should know judging from past events that if you want to fly, you are going to fly.  In my over 2 years here, I have never seen a scenario that is 100% on the attendance figures.  We seem to always be looking for guys for one side or the other every frame.

[SOB]

Actually, it's been so long since I've flown in a scenario, I don't know that.  Also, with the large subscription base HTC has now, I figured that open spots would be harder to come by.  If I'm wrong well then, eh, nevermind!  


SOB

[Reschke]

I posted this in the Special Events forum and Jordi replied quickly and with a great suggestion. THANKS for the reply Jordi and I will be trying the CAP event setup soon.

However I think that the overall length of the scenario is what deters many from making it after they register. I have flown in almost every AH Event that I have registered for. There have been some exceptions but they are due to family/work conflicts that come up. With the last big one I was all set to take part as a Flight Leader after Wotan asked me but I had to withdraw because of work conflicts. So I withdrew from the whole scenario and hopefully opened up a slot that someone else could/did use for all the frames.

I think the scenarios are great but for me and many others I am sure it is tough to make 4 Saturdays in a row for 2-4 hours. I would like to see a Special Event (not CAP series) put together and flown and ended in one frame. Not 2 or more frames in a single day. I can understand scenarios like the planned Midway scenario lasting more than one frame but in order to keep people interested and in there (aside from the normal compliment of scenario flyers) some serious thought needs to be given to shortening the length of them.

Thanks for listening.

[Lephturn]

Originally posted by Midnight
Lephturn,

What you are suggesting is even more 'administrative' than the system I suggest. With that, you would have to rely on the FLs to keep track and then report to the central 'black-list' administrator on who needs to go on the list. Then the administrator would have to keep a record of that and compare it against people who sign up for the next scenario. Many of those people may have switched userID in the mean time, so they get in anyway. Then you have the guys who would be whining that they got black listed for no reason, that they tried to show up, but the FL didn't like them and never sent them any Emails or gave them a chance. Then there would have to be arbitration hearings so everyone could state their case.

Yeah, but it's down to WHO does the administration.  If it's collecting/refunding money, HTC has to do it.  They clearly don't have the resources.  If it's as simple as managing a "black list", the scenario folks (volunteers) can do it.  I do take your point about whining/arbitration and such though.  Hmmm.

Feh.

BTW, very interesting registration thingy Nash.  I like it.  I understand that it doesn't match HTC's goals for major scenarios, but it is very cool and could solve a lot of problems.  Little things like automating email reminders and confirmations could go a long way to making this work, even within a first-come first-served registration scheme.  I think if you modified your ideas to work with what HTC needs to do, it would be very helpfull.