Author Topic: Enjoying the hell out of the P47 :))  (Read 338 times)

Offline beet1e

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7848
Enjoying the hell out of the P47 :))
« on: September 17, 2002, 11:07:15 AM »
Earlier, Lazs said that P51/La7 was the only safe option in the MA. And I see his point. However, I like to try different planes and try to get an insight into what they would be like in the real WW2.

The main difference with the P47s in AH is that they have modelled that paddle prop, which was highly praised by Colonel F. Gabreski in his biography. In AH, the P47 Booms AND Zooms! I’ve been having a lot of fun in that, both for jabo but also as a fighter. I seem to get a reasonable k/d with it, which means that YOU can too. But Lazs is right. You have to remember that you’re in the MA, where the nearest enemy base is 5 mins away. Take too long in a 1-to-1 fight, or a 1-to-2, and some knucklehead will come along in a P51 having climbed to get a 10K alt advantage. :rolleyes:  But that’s OK. I’ll take my lumps in the MA :(

Of the P47 D variants, Gabby flew the D11 for the most part, but later flew the D25 which he liked the best. In the particular passage of his book where he talks about that, he doesn’t even mention the D30.

If ever you get bored with your current ride, give the Jug a try.

I met the late Col. “Gabby” Gabreski a couple of years ago, and bought his book which he signed for me. He was a nice old stick, but still gritty and firm. I wish there were more like him alive today.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2002, 12:20:45 PM by beet1e »

Offline Slash27

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12794
Enjoying the hell out of the P47 :))
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2002, 11:15:31 AM »
Thats cool as hell Beet1e.:D

Offline -ammo-

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5124
Enjoying the hell out of the P47 :))
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2002, 05:27:41 PM »
beetle.   I hope you stay a convert:D
Commanding Officer, 56 Fighter Group
Retired USAF - 1988 - 2011

Offline Pollock

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 519
Enjoying the hell out of the P47 :))
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2002, 05:33:08 PM »
The Jug hah!  What a POS.  I wouldnt be caught ded in it...

Offline SFRT - Frenchy

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5420
      • http://home.CFL.rr.com/rauns/menu.htm
Enjoying the hell out of the P47 :))
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2002, 05:33:56 PM »
P47 Sucks (TM)!:o

BTW, Gabby never flew the D30, he ditched in his D25, isn't it?

__________________
56th Fighter Group Zemkes Wolfpack
« Last Edit: September 18, 2002, 03:43:35 AM by SFRT - Frenchy »
Dat jugs bro.

Terror flieger since 1941.
------------------------

Offline AvidMC

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 174
Enjoying the hell out of the P47 :))
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2002, 05:54:27 PM »
Pollock 's right!!! Only a complete moron would fly a Jug in the MA. You're much better off grabin a N1k and shooting head on at 1100 yards.

Avid

Offline beet1e

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7848
Enjoying the hell out of the P47 :))
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2002, 03:18:22 AM »
AvidMC!
Quote
Pollock 's right!!! Only a complete moron would fly a Jug in the MA. You're much better off grabin a N1k and shooting head on at 1100 yards.
LOL!  You gave me a horrible turn when you said that, because there really are people in AH who would think exactly that. :(  Only when I saw your squad signature did I see the joke - ROFL! :D

Offline SFRT - Frenchy

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5420
      • http://home.CFL.rr.com/rauns/menu.htm
Enjoying the hell out of the P47 :))
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2002, 03:42:37 AM »
You should check our P47 stats Beetle, you may have a kick out of them :D

__________________
56th Fighter Group Zemkes Wolfpack
Dat jugs bro.

Terror flieger since 1941.
------------------------

Offline Innominate

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2702
Enjoying the hell out of the P47 :))
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2002, 04:11:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
You should check our P47 stats Beetle, you may have a kick out of them :D

__________________
56th Fighter Group Zemkes Wolfpack


Jug dweeb. :D

Offline Monk

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1823
Enjoying the hell out of the P47 :))
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2002, 07:39:08 AM »
P47.......what crap!!!!

Offline Lephturn

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1200
      • http://lephturn.webhop.net
Enjoying the hell out of the P47 :))
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2002, 12:42:22 PM »
Meh, P-47's are only good for suicide=jabo runs on the CV group.  Every body knows that!  You can safely ignore enemy P-47s in the area, they are no threat to superior fighters.  And oh yeah, you don't need any E to fight vs. a Jug... just engage them from a lower alt all the time, otherwise there is no challenge.

;)

Offline Kweassa

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6425
Enjoying the hell out of the P47 :))
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2002, 07:38:48 PM »
Question:

 What I don't understand is the comment of the late Robert Johnson so often mentioned that;

 "The P-47, with its massive weight purely excelled in zoom climbs, but would meet trouble when the competition became something about sustained climb rates"

 I saw this comment on Johnson's mock-combat with a Spitfire, and in Johnson's interviews, too.

 Does this mean the P-47, at the start of the zoom climb, would gain tremendous distance over an enemy plane, but the enemy would catch up as it reaches the limit of the zoom-sequence? If so, I don't think that can be described as "great zoom climb" unless the P-47 had a massive E advantage in the first place.. and I wonder how that fact ever helped with the Jug in actual combat.

 Gosh, if somebody like Johnson says so, its probably true, but I'm not getting the point..  can anyone clarify this for me?

Offline -ammo-

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5124
Enjoying the hell out of the P47 :))
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2002, 09:19:11 PM »
Kweassa--

The jug holds its smash well.  Its the theory that its pretty hard to slow down a bunch of fast moving weight:)  

If you are diving at 500 MPH and pull up, you can expect that  AC to zoom for quite a distance.
Commanding Officer, 56 Fighter Group
Retired USAF - 1988 - 2011

Offline eagl

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6769
Enjoying the hell out of the P47 :))
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2002, 10:47:19 PM »
"Zoom" is different from sustained climb regardless of how much speed you start with.

A high drag/lift aircraft may have an enormous sustained rate of climb, but the high drag and lift may hamper its ability to trade speed and altitude at will.

Simple example - take a brick and a wad of paper.  The brick is the jug and the paper is the spit.  Toss both upwards at 20 mph.  The brick will "zoom" a certain distance, the paper will "zoom" a somewhat shorter distance.  

This example is extreme in that neither the brick nor the paper have a sustained climb ability, but it doesn't take much of an imagination or even complex math to extrapolate that a plane that flies like a brick (P-47) may zoom better than a plane that has the drag/weight characteristics of a wad of paper (spitfire).  The P-47 may have a better zoom, better dive acceleration, and even higher top speed depending on drag and horsepower, but the spit being optimized for turning performance with lower weight and higher lift will likely have a better sustained climb.

So BOTH historical accounts are likely correct and the practical application of either performance characteristic is a matter of timing.  The P-47 driver may only have a moment in which his superior zoom provides an advantage.  Wait too short of a time and you haven't fully exploited the better zoom, but wait too long and the spit is beyond "zoom" and is simply using it's climb rate advantage to eat away at the Jug's already-used zoom advantage.

Climb rate at high speed may however be a different story.  Take a spit flying at max sustained level speed and a jug climbing at that same speed, and you find the corner of the envelope that the Jug can actually outclimb the spit.  The P-51 in AH is outstanding in this regard (look at climb rates at 150, 200, 250, 300, and 350 knots and you'll see what I mean) and the Jug also has some advantage over slower but typically "better climbing" aircraft.

Of course, using that advantage makes you look like a running coward, but war is hell...
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline AKcurly

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1509
Enjoying the hell out of the P47 :))
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2002, 12:26:47 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
Question:

Does this mean the P-47, at the start of the zoom climb, would gain tremendous distance over an enemy plane, but the enemy would catch up as it reaches the limit of the zoom-sequence? If so, I don't think that can be described as "great zoom climb" unless the P-47 had a massive E advantage in the first place.. and I wonder how that fact ever helped with the Jug in actual combat.

 Gosh, if somebody like Johnson says so, its probably true, but I'm not getting the point..  can anyone clarify this for me?


Properly executed, by the time they start gaining in the climb, your jug is headed straight down (right at them) with all 8 guns blazing. :)

curly