Author Topic: WW2OL Revisited  (Read 5874 times)

Offline Vulcan

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WW2OL Revisited
« on: September 22, 2002, 06:20:01 PM »
Two weeks ago I got the battlefield 1942 'demo'. Kinda cool but very gamey, but it reignited the mmpog-tank-troop-sim interest in me so I thought fek it! And downloaded WW2OL, signed up for the int'l player no cd-key required thing and away I went.

Joystick setup seems a lot better than it used to be. I clutzed around the keymapper for a while and eventually got my stick setup mapped nicely. And the controls seemed reasonable.

Graphics, well, they don't really seem to have changed or progressed. In fact, its downright primitive. It reminds me of M1 Tank Platoon II or the final version of Gunship. The entire world seems to be made up of 2D surfaces with bitmaps applied to them. Initially, if you look across a landscape, it looks ok, then as you play the razor thin trees and hedgelines get a bit - ummm - sad. The infantry aren't really animated either, which I found disappointing (ie no animated limbs when walking). They look like little plastic soldiers being moved about by big invisible hands. There are also rendering errors, especially in the sky, nothing major, but another annoyance after a couple of days playing.

What is scarey about the graphics is the framerate, my spanky new Athlon 2100XP+ with Geforce 3 card could only crank out 25fps @ 1024 x 768 x 32 bit in the ground war. A little less in the air. All this to drive probably one of the most primitive 3D engines on the market. I base this on my comparision with OFP, which I run at 1280x1024x32 in high FPS, even with loads of much better rendered objects and similar viewing distances.

Sound is reasonable good. The volume relative to object distance could use a little tweaking. It seems a bit high, but perhaps it helps identify or track distant contacts.

The FM? Who cares! I went there for the ground war. Plus, IMHO the WW2OL FM needs to be dumbed down for the general masses to be interested. So I think the FM is just fine for its purpose.

The ground war? Well, the players really make it. It can be a lot of fun. Especially in peak times. But it IS the players who are making it work, the game engine itself is barely up to it. Playing time is a bit more dragged out than AH. Especially if you're infantry.

The server connection seemed ok, although I did notice it was reasonably hard to track infantry. The update rates seem a litle low compared to AH. It wasn't unusual to see a guy jump 5-10 metres in a different direction from 'warpage'.

Player numbers was another interesting one. At peak weekend times, where I fought, there were roughly 30 guys per side, with around 10 major 'battles' going across the map. So going by experience I'd say peak numbers were probably 1000, with off peak down to about 300.

In summary, the game has the basic features it should have been released with. However the graphics engine is way beyond its use-by-date. The player base is really all that makes WW2OL attractive. After a week I've had enough of the low framerates, 90's graphics, and 'jogging' practise.

Sadly, it wasn't worth the money.

Offline Kieran

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WW2OL Revisited
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2002, 06:37:34 PM »
Time for the "Why, you must be doing something wrong. I have a Pentium 200 that gets 100fps in heavy dogfighting" posts to start. ;)

Offline Gh0stFT

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« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2002, 06:42:45 PM »
lets see how the new Mac version will work out compared
to the PC version, fps wise.
The statement below is true.
The statement above is false.

Offline hardcase

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« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2002, 06:43:43 PM »
The engine isnt out of date. The problem is the number of polygons that must be rendered. The graphics will improve as the machines get better. My 2100xp, 1 gig 333mhz, geforce 4 4600 gets around 40fps with all the bells and whistles on in majior battles. There is something wrong in your setup to see fps that low with that machine. The next version will include a graphic engine rewrite to bring it up to DX 8.1 standards. T&L will be included. WW2OL graphics I suspect will never approach Stand Alone/32 Mulltiplayer standards. Just the nature of the beast.

Are you running more than 32 voices in Sound? More than 32 voicecs need CPU cycles to be produced. Also use your sound card driver instead of the generic one.

Hardcase

Offline Staga

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WW2OL Revisited
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2002, 06:45:44 PM »
Hehe the flight- and damage model sure could be better. Couple days ago my 110 decided to be a helicopter. I felt inverted from 1km high to ground, compass in HUD spinning like wheel of fortune.
I did drop flaps and gears and when the screen was clear again after red-out I found my plane sitting on her wheels on the ground in perfect condition.
10 secs later I was heading back to the fight :D

Version with Dx8 should be out "soon" and I'm eager to see if it helps FPS problems. I'm using 1280*1024 32bit and FPS varies from 15 to 50...

TB1,53GHz (OC'd 1,4)/768DDR/OC'd Gf4Ti4200/SB-Audigy/WinXP

(btw "Tokuh's Tweakuh 3" proggie for WinXP gives few FPS more, It sets the game to run in "High" or "Above normal" priority settings)

Offline Vulcan

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« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2002, 07:22:35 PM »
Hardcase, I'm sorry but the engine is way out of date. Poly count? Considering most of the terrain is flat 2D rectangles with bitmapps mapped onto them you really are grasping at straws. The models certainly are nice. But the poly count is hardly up there.

40fps is not astounding for a PC with those specs you have either. M1 Tank Platoon II had a very very similar look to it (visual range, trees, models etc). This was a game from the old Voodoo days.

WW2OL graphics may never approach standalone graphics, that is no excuse for poor framerates on such high spec'd PC's. For example, AH is no leading edge graphics, but because it isn't I can run it at 1600x1200x32 and still achieve 75fps. IE, entry level graphics on grunty PC should equal hi frame rates. In WW2OL it doesn't, clear signs of a poorly written graphics engine.

My system runs plenty of other programs just fine without tweaking. Explain to me why programs with clearly high poly counts, like OFP, or Battlefield 1942, perform better at high res than WW2OL?

Quote
Originally posted by hardcase
The engine isnt out of date. The problem is the number of polygons that must be rendered. The graphics will improve as the machines get better. My 2100xp, 1 gig 333mhz, geforce 4 4600 gets around 40fps with all the bells and whistles on in majior battles. There is something wrong in your setup to see fps that low with that machine. The next version will include a graphic engine rewrite to bring it up to DX 8.1 standards. T&L will be included. WW2OL graphics I suspect will never approach Stand Alone/32 Mulltiplayer standards. Just the nature of the beast.

Are you running more than 32 voices in Sound? More than 32 voicecs need CPU cycles to be produced. Also use your sound card driver instead of the generic one.

Hardcase

Offline Wotan

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WW2OL Revisited
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2002, 08:32:24 PM »
Believe it or not me brady and heinkel signed back up. Gameplay still sux, game is nothing much to look at.

I did find something out though. I was able to snipe folks off at long range with my pistol (luger) with 1 shot where as my rifle it took 2 maybe 3 at range.

If inf were close then the rifle aint worth a damn. Brady and I both would walk behind an enemy inf and shoot umm in the back with our rifle. I shot 1 guy 3 times and he just turned round and machine gunned me.

Same thing with brady.

Heres the last aar I posted on our squad bbs (I has uploaded images but I deleted off my hd when I uninstalled wwiiol)

Quote
I had the most awesome tank battle today. The allies captures a base just south of bertrix, Herbeaumont.

I originally set on the North East heights over looking Sedan. From here I have a good look into Both Army Bases as well as the Dock in Sedan. Nothing was spawning at Sedan when the call comes over the radio asking for support to re-take Herbeaumont.

I spawn as a rifle man and jump on an Opel. As we approach Herb. I jump as it seems we are taking fire. Well the Opel and and the 5 or 6 other inf get killed by ai.

I circle round to the trees and see what looks to be an armor/inf assault forming in the Army base presumably to Bertrix.

I start to run back to the Fb where I spawned but realize it would take to long. So I despawn. I jump to Bertrix and no tanks were available so I jump back to the FB where I originally spawned as an inf.

The only tank avail there was a 38t. I spawn thinking I can catch them from behind and jump on the road and haul arse east.

I see off to my right 2 friendly p111s taking and returning fire. I turn right off road and head to their position. I set up overlooking the the North road going into the town. there was an r35 an s-35 and a sa mle 37 all firing at the p3s. The r35 despawns as soon as I turn my sights to him and the s35 had moved behind some trees. I switch to he and fire and kill the sa mle 37.

Kill #1

the p3s tell me 3 - 4 other tanks had got by north as well as a bedford toward bertrix. I haul arse back north off road and before I get to far off to my right on the road theres an r 35. Hes moving slow trying to get up hill. I fire and hit him. Damn I forget to switch back to ap. switch fire again to use the he thats already loaded and fire again with ap killing the r 35.

Kill #2

I see another tank further north. I dont have a shot so I moved west of the road but parallel and headed north.

I see tracer fire to the nw and see 2 nme tanks pull off the road. It seems another friendly tank had set up ahead of them. This is my chance to catch umm because they stopped.

I get in position of less then 800 yards of the closest tank. He doesnt see me because hes engaged with the other friendly.
I could have got closer but I got scared. I came to a stop went to the main gun and had a good look at the tank. Damn!!! A CHAR!!!

I thought about running because at that range if he hits me 1 time I am dead. I then remember that on the char that the radiator grill is weak and I can atleast disable him. But its on the left side and I am looking at his right. I then also remember the hatch on the back on the turret is weak as well and to my joy I have a clear shot right at it.

Boom!! I fire my 1st shoot and the char is no longer firing at the other friendly.

Boom!! another shot and he despawns.

Kill # 3

The friendly tank tells me hes disabled and that an s35 has just rounded the corner headed north toward bertrix. He said he had killed a truck and maybe some inf.

I dont want to head on the road fer fear another nme tank may be coming up the road from herb. and I would be totally exposed should the s35 spot me.

Instead I make a dash North then North west around some trees. As I get near the road to Bertrix I spot the s35 stopped in the road apparently finishing off the other friendly tanker.

I get close again this time within a 1000 yards and fire, then fire again and again. The s35 doesnt see me and hes looking the wrong way, thinking I came from the same direction as the other tank. I fire again and again. WTF this bastard wont die!!!

I put atleast 9 rounds of ap in him and then he just despawns. WOW!!!!!! thinking I got my 4th kill (actually I thought my 3rd because I figured the char had despawned after taking damage.)


In the week or so I tried playing wwiiol again this was it for anything resembling "fun".

Nothing about the air war in there do I find "fun" or "immersive". Reminds my a lot of fighter ace with cockpits forced on. Of the 3 of us that signed back up just brady still plays but last I talked to him he said he was getting bored with it. I am still paid up for another week. Despite its looks and at times it bugginess it just isnt very fun. Its about gameplay for me. And I spend too much time being bored over there.

"Virtual Jogger"..........lol
« Last Edit: September 22, 2002, 08:58:09 PM by Wotan »

Offline Heinkel

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WW2OL Revisited
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2002, 08:46:23 PM »
ty Wotan!!! reminded me i had to cancel my account by the 25th ;) Played it for a week then got bored of mystery tank deaths and CTDs in air

Offline Vulcan

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« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2002, 09:50:45 PM »
Wotan when I was playing I heard several people commenting about 'Luger Sniping' and wondered about that.

I did wonder about the rifle. In one run I made, I crept into an occupied town, spotted an enemy sniper in a abandoned tower. I proceeded to shoot at him, maybe 20 rounds. Eventually he spotted me, 1 ping and I was dead. The score screen showed he was a sapper, and I 'damaged' him. I assume this was the pistol-sniping at work. I hit him with a 303, and only wound the guy, he pistol snipers me from range and kills me instantly.

Looks like OFP user made missions will be my savouir.

Offline Wotan

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WW2OL Revisited
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2002, 09:54:03 PM »
pistols are the sniper weapon, ask brady I was nailing guys the were far away. I hit umm with my rifle and it wouldnt kill um.

They gotta long way to go before I re-install that pos.

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2002, 10:05:41 PM »
hehe...

...it's stuff like that just jars me right out of any fun I could have. In the air you see similar anomolies. I didn't grunt much because I have no interest, but I suspected there were similar probs. Best description is "death by 1,000 cuts". Nothing big, but the little scratches all add up.

1.67 may add new features, but will it correct such obvious and glaring problems? Doubt it.

Offline hardcase

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« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2002, 10:22:07 PM »
Some play, some stay. It grows, I knows. Perhaps someday it will be something you can enjoy.

hardcase

Offline hardcase

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« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2002, 10:26:52 PM »
How do you know the guy shot you? There is no kill records kept.  Not who killed you, but who you killed. Did the Sapper throw a grenade? Was he the only other enemy in the town? Ppl get pretty good with all the weapons. The rifles have a Battle Sight Zero of 200 yds(meters? forgot which) Aim low under 200 yds, Aim high beyond 200 yds. I have walked up on ppl fixated on a target and shot em in the head:-)

Anyway, if you dont enjoy it, maybe later.

hardcase

Offline hardcase

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WW2OL Revisited
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2002, 10:29:22 PM »
CTDs in the air. I dont CTD, so is it the sim or your system? BTW, did you ever post about the problems? How about posting your system specs, settings? Might add some insight into the CTD problem.

hardcase

Offline Vulcan

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« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2002, 10:31:05 PM »
Comon hard :) experienced players were talking about 'luger sniping', so its obviously a known thing within the hardcore WW2OL community.