Author Topic: IL2 calls it flutter............ (Read 1402 times)

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #45 on:** September 24, 2002, 12:55:53 PM »

That is probably the only thing that WW2Ol actually models...

Either way, I wasn't comparing trim between AH and Il2...

Of course, if you are trying to convince me because WW2Ol models the 109 trim properply that it's good, I will just reference you to the incompleteness of the entire game... and the FM specifically.. and how easy mode it is too.
-SW

Hristo · « **Reply #46 on:** September 24, 2002, 01:28:57 PM »

Il-2 has its share of weaknesess, but is surprisingly good sim for being the first made by the development team. Control response routines are probably hard to implement right (how long did it take to HTC team ?). But Il-2 has so many other advantages (IMO) that I am ready to forget these small quirks.

I mean, if I can have all that eye candy, historical matchups, campaigns, and attention to detail which goes to different performance due to weather conditions, ammo mixes, beautiful and functional 3D cockpits - how wouldn't I enjoy the sim ?

Back to the topic. SW said that in Il-2 it is either crisp controls or good gunnery, but not both at the same time. I fully agree, I have been searching for the magical solution for some time and nothing still. Might be a good idea for Il-2 message boards

.

ygsmilo · « **Reply #47 on:** September 24, 2002, 01:36:28 PM »

Take a valium jbroey---

Do not question Toads experience in regards to flying real airplanes. He is much to humble to tell you really how much flight experience he has. Just hearing him tell what it is like air to air refueling a RC-135 from a KC-135 and it taking an HOUR on the boom to take a full load of fuel was enough to make me sweat.

In reference to IL-2,,,

I have messed around with it alot the past few months since the con. It is like any GAME, there are things I like and things I dont.
The eye candy is great. I find the tracer flashes way to much.

Inregards to the stick set up- it is very clumsy in my opinion. Both IL-2 and WBs would benifit greatly from taking the AH example of how to do that. I finally got most of the bounce out and have a smooth response to my stick ( USB CH Fighterstick-ProThrottle-ProPeds) but it took way to much time. I have never been able to map the trim to my stick. With both AH and WBs this is very easy. The trim does act a a cheat as is discussed on the UBI boards, you can use the elevator trim to take way to much G. When will people just figure out that trim is just for removing stick pressure,,,, not for manuvering.

I like the ability to just airstart and furball,,and IL-2 has improved my gunnery in AH due to the fact that you have to be more accurate. The flight model is very subjective, we have all seen those arguments on this and other boards. It seems that all the planes hold to much E to me except the 190 which flys like a brick-as it should. I would say that the Russian birds are overmodeled to a point but not that bad. The German planes fly like a thought except I think the 109 rolls a bit to good. The Stuka is a hoot to fly especially when you dive bomb ships. The most fun I have had is the I-16 vrs the PZ-11,,,turn and burn baby.

Other stuff--

I have made this statement before and stick to it,, when it comes to flight references from the good ol USSR you have to remember that they come from a society built on disinformation. No disrespect to Oleg and his crew, they have built a great GAME.

Dago · « **Reply #48 on:** September 24, 2002, 01:37:35 PM »

Quote

And in my opinon, it flew quite crisp. It was very responsive to the controls

I am sure you are correct Vermie, but were you doing 300 at the time? As speed increases, resistance to flight control movement will increase. Thats why I was thinking it was going to be heavier to handle. These planes had neither boosted controls nor did all of them have servo tabs.

dago

Wotan · « **Reply #49 on:** September 24, 2002, 01:38:28 PM »

hristo I think every here enjoys the visual aspects of il2. Most enjoy playing it.

It took me awhile to get my stick where I want it and it works well.

As to wwiiol I like the key mapper their. It seemed a bit much after the simplicity of ahs but I found that you can really tweak your js to fit your style.

My mention of black out in wwwiiol, if you ever enter/ red out black out there you would know what I mean.

The onething that is telling about wwiiols fm is the FA guys telling you how real it is. Not necessarily evidence but it gives me a chuckle.

Scootter · « **Reply #50 on:** September 24, 2002, 01:38:40 PM »

Something I think would be an improvment would be the modeling of wake turbulence. When I do hard 360 turns in my plane I hit my own wake and it is quite a bump. When we get on another AC's 6 we should be buffeted around by his wake quite a bit and that would make direct 6 attacks a bit harder as to aiming. This would make slight off angle attacks a bit more realistic. (think what the wake would be on three B-17's I think you would bounce around a lot.)

Just a thought while we are looking for that last tid-bit of accuracy.

my $0.2 worth

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #51 on:** September 24, 2002, 01:55:46 PM »

Scootter, it's a nice idea... but wouldn't work online due to warping, drop packets, etc...

When we all have fiber optics tho, it'll be a good time.

Hristo, no doubt Il2 was a first good run. I am expecting FB to be better, they seem to have taken a lot of player suggestions in regards to the campaign, interactivity of throttle control (although I do hope they model the 190s throttle system accurately, so that it will finally be better than the 109 in regards to simplicity)..

In any event, I like Il2. It has it's pluses, and it's minuses. I can suspend disbelief in AH tho, so for me to say that about Il2 isn't saying much.. but it is easy to lose yourself in that game... especially some of the online DF rooms and coop missions.

Now, FB... that I think will be quite a bit nicer in offline play.. plus it'll have the Buffalo, P40, Hurri and I153! Not to mention search lights (neato!) I wish they would of added a lesser known German fighter (He112 I think? It's a Heinkel, I know that), but maybe they'll get one in after it's release.

Now if I can just finger out how to get the ultimate joystick scaling, I'll be a happy camper!

EDIT: Here's the final version of a 109G2 skin I did: http://www.geocities.com/weissdr1/screenshots.html
-SW

Pongo · « **Reply #52 on:** September 24, 2002, 02:02:27 PM »

jbroey said
"It is funny, Il2 not only has a Higher level of graphic detail but a far more intracate level of personality than that of Aces high.

This is shown through many immersion details that are not present in Aces High. "

well said. I think IL2 makes use of detail of AC and enviroment to make for a game with much more personality then AH has.

clip!

"Il2 is progressing every single day in many ways. I would even go as far as to say surpassing the level of output that the HTC crew does presently."

Also true and exciting. The amount of effort that the IL2 team is putting into growing the game and the way that users can contribute is very impressive. They seem to have fine tuned a way to have models generated "open source" but control the way they are introduced in to the game to ensure a very very high standard and at the same time maintain contol over the game and the comunity.

Olav is also a very very involed designer-developer, you get the small shop felling that HTC has so well but the output is at a rate that no one man can match. they must have at least 4 or 5 very tallented programmers at work there and in effect dozens of artists.

BUT.
its not multi player and even the online game is two bongo lines of 6 ac or so streaming towards each others fields...boring compared to AH. How much of what I like about IL2 would have to be thrown out going to a 250 player arena..
I dont know. But I think if there is money in it..we will find out befor too long.

dtango · « **Reply #53 on:** September 24, 2002, 02:32:04 PM »

Is jbroey Deezeecamp? Honest question.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #54 on:** September 24, 2002, 02:33:16 PM »

Yes dtango.
-SW

dtango · « **Reply #55 on:** September 24, 2002, 03:47:21 PM »

Aw thanks. Some of the replies people have posted make sense now.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

Wlfgng · « **Reply #56 on:** September 24, 2002, 03:51:34 PM »

TOAD.. you're an old RC135 guy ?

me too.. and V models, KC etc.. Eilson AFB

Toad · « **Reply #57 on:** September 24, 2002, 04:40:20 PM »

Affirm, Wlfgng.

Offutt from '75 to '80. Deployed to the "standards", Kadena, Eielson, Athens & Mildenhall more times than I can count in the RC-135 M, V, U and got to fly the early prototype W's.

Flew Cuba a bunch and Nicaraugua too.

Got to do some cool stuff... like show up the brand spanking new E-3A on its debut at a Nellis exercise. They had live TV feed to the oval office for Carter and we're out there in this old standard V model putting out more intel, more accurate intel and a higher quantity of intel than the new super-duper radar AWAC plane. They made us go home early! (In defense of AWACS, it was their first model and the crews were still really learning it. I'm sure they're excellent at what they do now.)

Lots of great memories.

Good job; it was really an interesting period to be flying Recon... as you probably know.

dtango · « **Reply #58 on:** September 24, 2002, 06:00:12 PM »

You guys have any recommended books on "recon"

flights during the Cold War? Always been extremely fascinated with ELINT operations.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

SKurj · « **Reply #59 on:** September 24, 2002, 07:41:15 PM »

I have to do the 'mess with conf.ini' to setup my scaling in IL2 and have never achieved the compromise of a plane that feels responsive AND offers decent gunnery..

I've given up messing with it...
for that matter i've given up playin il2 .. oops and AH for the moment..

BF1942 r00lZ

SKurj