the fields really do need to be closer together

[RabidSquirrel]

Okay let's just put it this way,there are two type's of pilot's. One that would would rather takeoff and get into a short dogfight then have to do it all over again. Then there's the type that would rather take a few minute's to get alt and have a better chance of surviving. I one of those pilot's. No matter how far or how close the field's are together doesn't mean that it's gonna increase the action. There just fine the where they are. Beside's war wasn't meant to be at close range's. If you have no strategy there's no way in hell you can win the war. Plus these low level dogfight's aren't very fun anyway's,by the time you get to 6 thousand feet your heading to the ground. Let's get more alt and have a better chance of returning home shall we!    

One Of The Guy's,
Squirral

[AKSWulfe]

I guess me and Lazs are just "different". I mean, with all these guys saying that you can live more if you stay higher and have dogfights at alt, we must be dying a whole crapload.

And since these furballs aren't fun at all, I guess me and Lazs are just wasting our time.

Also, we must be playing this game all wrong-- shoot I know we are if it's a war!!!

Just some numbers for you guys who think Lazs' style of play gets you killed a lot and is boring:

My fighter stats for Tour23:
K/D:  4.7407
K/S:  2.2857
K/T:  0.0022

That's from furballing.

I can't compare it to other guys in this thread, because all of the advocates of making fields farther apart, or imposing a death penalty aren't posting under their flying handles.
-SW

[Apache]

Originally posted by Squirral:
Okay let's just put it this way,there are two type's of pilot's. One that would would rather takeoff and get into a short dogfight then have to do it all over again. Then there's the type that would rather take a few minute's to get alt and have a better chance of surviving. I one of those pilot's. No matter how far or how close the field's are together doesn't mean that it's gonna increase the action. There just fine the where they are. Beside's war wasn't meant to be at close range's. If you have no strategy there's no way in hell you can win the war. Plus these low level dogfight's aren't very fun anyway's,by the time you get to 6 thousand feet your heading to the ground. Let's get more alt and have a better chance of returning home shall we!    

One Of The Guy's,
Squirral

You're making the assumption that those who don't grab alt and enter a dogfight low don't intend to survive. Wrong.

[lazs1]

squirral... close fields won't stop u from getting alt if you think that is an advantage for you.   those who would fight in furballs by coming in with a huge alt advantage are only kidding themselves..  All they do is reduce their action and K/t numbers... their K/D is no better... it just takes longer to get the same numbers.   In the midst of a large fur the planes 4k above me are of no concern to me.  I have plenty of time to act if they get brave.

The only way that alt really helps you in a furball is if you use it to avoid the furball.     If you wish to avoid furballs that is fine.  You would still be able to do so.   Strat would be increased because fields would fall easier.

And... unlike you... most do not enjoy the "few minutes" spent gaining alt to spend another "few minutes" looking for a fight that you have the advantage in so that you can spend another "few minutes" sneaking up so that you can spend another "few minutes" chasing the con who flys like you do and realizes that he is 5 mph slower and 50 feet lower so has to run like hell for "a few minutes" with you spending another fun filled "few minutes" chasing him.
lazs

[pbirmingham]

Originally posted by Squirral:
Plus these low level dogfight's aren't very fun anyway's,by the time you get to 6 thousand feet your heading to the ground. Let's get more alt and have a better chance of returning home shall we!    

One Of The Guy's,
Squirral

Dude, you haven't had fun til you've taken a 109 F-4 up from a capped airfield and knocked off a vulcher (vulture?)  Sure, you die lots, but it's a lot of fun, and sometimes you actually get to land a kill.

Don't tell me how to have fun, 'k?

[AKDejaVu]

Very impressive stats swulfe.. and they don't mean toejam.

The idea that moving the fields closer together will spread out the fights is simply ludicrous.  You make ack running more accessable and you make vulching more accessable.  Very few of the people engaging in these furballs care very little about spreading things out.  They want tons o cons so they can shoot at something.

Of course, you get decent stick in the middle of it... with squadies especially... and you get numbers from hell.  I guess lazs and swulfe do have something in comon... the furballs make for some easy targets and they love it.

Moving fields farther apart could also serve to spread out the fight (afterall.. we don't need to really support an argument in a lazs thread.. just throw it out there).  A 10% increase in the distance should do the trick.

The only way to spread out the field is to increase front.  Bigger maps starting with more bases head to head.  Make it so at least 5 bases on every front are opposing each other.  Look at the current map sets... the Mind and Lake map always have super clogged fronts... because there is usually only two or three bases on each front... mostly due to the geography.  If you were just to add more bases (put them closer means adding more right?)... then it would just be more bases with the same area and the same log jam.

On a side note.. I can't help but find it quite humorous watching Lazs try to argue that the furballers just aren't doing it the way he likes right now.  Oh... wait.. it must be the strat guys that are causing these over populated furball clogs.  

AKDejaVu

[AKSWulfe]

DJ, they do mean toejam.

When these guys suffer roadkillitis such as this:
"Then there's the type that would rather take a few minute's to get alt and have a better chance of surviving."

Or this: "How about this: I say that a 32,5% increase in distance between fields would help everyones gameplay. If you have a 20 min ride to the target, you dont blow it all in one glorious suicide run just to strafe one pony on the ground. "

It just goes to show you that these stats that don't mean toejam, coming from someone who spends the majority of his time furballing, actually mean toejam. It means that in a furball I can get kills quickly, and I can live. I don't need alt, and thus the two above statements mean absolutely nothing.
-SW

[lazs1]

SW... those are very good stats.   I think you make your (and my) point.   If you can survive, K/D, and you can kill.. K/S, and... you can do it quickly K/T... you are flying in a very skilled manner...  I don't believe that any of the "realistic" "fly to live" advocates can match all those numbers..  They may be able to get the K/D easy enough (or even much better) but they will have to take enormous amounts of fuel or rearm constantly to equal the K/S and they will then have K/T figures that dip below what most would find tolerable.

Point is... They can fly anyway they want if the fields are closer together..  I'ts just some kinda sour grapes thing with em to want fields farther apart or... They honestly believe (LOL!) that they are more skilled than furballers or smarter or something and that the stats are conspiring against them.  

personally... I find working my way up to the alt guys just results in a less than interesting fight with an inexperianced fighter.
lazs

[AKDejaVu]

Those stats are roadkill lazs and wulfie... to the core.

The main reason EVERY decent pilot's stats are increasing is because of the influx of newbies.  Don't present yourselves as the norm in a furball.. you are not.  You have those stats for a reason... because so many in that fight get dick for kills.

Anything presented using those stats speaks more as a means to increase them... at the risk of decreasing someone elses.  It doesn't prove anything else.

 

Point is... They can fly anyway they want if the fields are closer together.. I'ts just some kinda sour grapes thing with em to want fields farther apart or... They honestly believe (LOL!) that they are more skilled than furballers or smarter or something and that the stats are conspiring against them.

Lazs, they can fly anyway they want with the fields as they are.. or farther apart.  The totally stupid aspect of your theory is you simply assume moving them closer would solve so much... um... problems.. because... um... there are too many people in some furballs now... um... I think... but I don't really want to discourage furballing... but um...

Moving the fields closer together puts them right on top of each other.  Please... oh master of all that is "not" strat, but still strategic... tell me how that is in any way a good thing?

AKDejaVu

[lazs1]

deja we do agree on one thing.. we need more fields opposing each other but... the fields also need to be a little closer.  I don't know the magic number but a 10% closer would surely help especially if there were more fields opposing each other.   Proof that people like closer fields is in the fact that there is allways action around CV's..  that is more proof than you bring to the argument that "leave everything the way it is untill it changes and then leave that the way it is".   You allways bring to the discussion...... nothing.

and.. contrary to what you have said.. I am not unhappy with the furballs as they are now.. just the distance and the fact that there aren't enough of em.  sometimes it will take 20 minutes for another one to form after a base is captured.   Lota false starts and wasted time.
lazs

[AKSWulfe]

No DJ, you are wrong.

Listen, you are thinking I'm using those stats to promote closer fields. I am not.

I am using those stats to prove that if you intend to fly to live, then it doesn't matter how much alt you have.

My k/d and k/s were HALF that 5 days ago, I took up the 190A8 in furballs and in 5 days I doubled my K/d and k/s while my k/t, believe it or not, went down.

So, believe what you want- but when I don't even see you in the arena DJ, then you really shouldn't be commenting on things you don't experience or aren't around to watch.
-SW

[Am0n]

Lazs slaughtered me in a thread? lol
I replied to one of his post in that thread simply because the rest were as kieran said "my mom can beat up your mom" post.. i dont need to argue on that level, i like my IQ where it is, dont need to dumb down.
Besides the point..

In ISLE (or is it SDISLE?) the bases are intirely to far apart, in most cases you have time to climb to 25k, smoke a cig and drink a beer before you see a con. Buy the time you get there you are so spread out that you end up with 6 buddies all racing to kill one unlucky bastard, or the other way around.

Sadly i have to agree with Lazs, cv fights are were its at. I dont care if im the only one comming off the CV, or if its a enemy CV attacking my base its going to be a good experince.. until some nut case suicide bombs it. Just the other night i was having a good time with a light amount of friendlies and a hoard of enemys comming from a CV. It was good fun until they started opening up with all the destroyer guns. At that point i sunk the destroyer, they got close and started with the CV guns. After a few warnings, i decided to suicide bomb the glass decked CV to save the base. But i would have rather kept fighting.

I dont think that they should be much close, maybe 5 miles or so. Make them close, make ACK tougher to kill. But also keep some bases as they are and maybe some farther than ohers, like key bases with resources or HQ's near buy.

Lastly in 90% of the furballs i see people who i have no clue who they are, never seen them in my 200 hours a month of play and they normaly fly in circles until they "merge" with someone and spray and prey and maybe land a kill. So yea if your a decent stick i would hope you can kill this lamer.. stats dont mean much. Someone i hate to agree with more than Lazs, deja.. damn 2 times in one post.

[lazs1]

as usual, you are so full of toejam deja..  Putting fields 10% closer would in no way put them "right on top of each other"..  And.. having you explain "furballs 101" or how I fly is ludicrous at best and dishonest at worst.   You really don't know dick about either.

Putting fields closer toghether will increase field capture..  do you agree?   It will also increase the apparent "participation" in said field capture.   the amount of increase will be in proportion (to a point) to the amount the fields are made closer and/or.. in proximity of each other.

Now.. you advocate.. well.. nothing..  Or maybe I missed it?  You claim that putting fields closer together would not be good but fail to give any reasonable explanation as to why.   You fail to explain how closer fields would ruin gameplay for those who like to get alt before fighting others of their ilk...  On the other hand, you claim that farther fields don't hurt furballers getting to a fight (and back again) in the least.   You obviously have no concept of what wasted time is to these guys.

And what do you care if there is ack hugging?  we have that now with the only difference being that the attackers simply have to fly long to and from flights to get to the ack huggers and then have to play dodgeball all the way home from the timid oportunists of your ilk.   That is your idea of "spread out"  cherry picking those who have actually fought.  I guess in that case that it would "hurt your game" "ack hugging' because ypou wouldn't have so much risk free time to cherry pick.

for amon (my official sig)

Public relations officer and good will ambassador for the BK's.  My opinions are law We are not recruiting.  If someone dies we will send you an application.
lazs

[ 12-27-2001: Message edited by: lazs1 ]

[Hooligan]

Deja:

Think about this for a second.  If field density is sufficient then vulching will be much reduced.  Why would most players take off from a capped field if there is another friendly field real close?  People take off from vulched fields because they want to get to the action and they don't want to spend much time doing it.  The accept the vulch-risk because the reward of a quick fight is worth it (at least I do).  Give me a field half the distance away and I wouldn't bother.

Hooligan

[Eagler]

crap, gotta agree with laz on this one  

then take the new reduced map and reduce by 50% again and put it in CA, talk about a map too big for a room....