Author Topic: Tour 32 Fighter vs Fighter stats (Read 1246 times)

J_A_B · « **Reply #45 on:** October 07, 2002, 12:26:05 AM »

"To others who have a lesser success rate and/or can only fly a few hours per month, why pay 50 perks for an F4U-4 when it won't enhance your success much over an LA7 which is free. "

Actually I'm one of those players who builds up perks only at a very slow rate. Why? Because I'm basically paying a bunch of perks to fly my choice ride (51D).

You make a good point though regarding the current perked aircraft. Perhaps "midrange" perk planes (152, F4U4, spit14)should have a higher ENY value than average? This would serve to make them somewhat more rewarding to fly.

Right now the perk system charges you if you lose a perk plane, AND charges you for every plane you shoot down.

J_A_B

Turbot · « **Reply #46 on:** October 07, 2002, 12:30:10 AM »

The "quality" of pilots I hope we be sorted out once and for all in the current squad duel series.

At that time, please factor this into your numbers

I am 16 to 1 K/D in 152 but nobody mentioning that plane. Raw numbers tell you NOTHING.

Urchin · « **Reply #47 on:** October 07, 2002, 12:36:54 AM »

I constantly see this notion that perking the P51D, La7, and 190D9 will magically make all the chickenshits stop running. It won't. They'll move to the Tiffie. Perk the Tiffie and they'll move to (probably) the P-51B. Perk that and the 109-G10 would be the next to go. There will always be a 'fastest' plane. Eventually it would get to the point where the only unperked planes are the Spit I and 109E, and even then the Spit drivers would be squeaking about those chickenshits in the 109s that won't fight.

I know that to many the La7 is seen as some sort of Anti-Christ plane that magically transforms the pilot into a super-ace. It doesn't. Is the La-7 the refuge of choice for many mediocre pilots? Yes it is. Should it be perked because of that? No it shouldn't.

And as much as I squeak about getting gangbanged in the MA, I put myself in those situations. Why? I dunno, maybe I have an overinflated sense of my own skill as a pilot. But even in a plane like the 190A-5 (no speed demon by any stretch of the imagination) it is relatively easy to avoid La-7s and the like. I'm simply flying a bit higher than normal (moved from 10-12k to 15-18k) in areas where there are a significant amount of bad guys and a relative lack of friendlies. From there it is a matter of awareness. Now, the early early war planes are in a lot of trouble, because they are totally outclassed by everything in the MA. It would be nice to have a little area where only early-war planes could fly (a la Lazs). But even a mid-war plane like the 190A-5, or 109G-2, or P-47 (though it is tougher IMO) can survive and even thrive in our late war arena. Assuming your are cautious about what situations you put yourself in (which I'm usually not).

Turbot · « **Reply #48 on:** October 07, 2002, 12:37:39 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Puke
Perks are a monitary system-thing and therefore based on the principals of cost and value. Value here is based on the principal of substitution (and solely that because there is no limit to the numbers available of any particular aircraft so it's not a demand/supply thing.) Why should the average player take a month of his time to save for a lousy F4U-4 when it really doesn't perform any better than the LA-7 in the furball arena that the MA is. What seems to be lacking to me are perk rides that are actually worth it to the common player. I see no big deal in perking the LA7, D9 and 51D at a very miniscule perk cost and it would only have the slightest impact on their numbers seen in the arena. It seems retarded to me how the perk system currently works because there is very little that is viable to spend your perks on if you are average. I would love to see stats on who are flying the F4U-4 and Spit14 because I bet the vast majority of those people have hords of perk points. The typical player is probably going to just bypass these aircraft and save for the ME262 and not risk those points on something not much better than the LA7. Point being, what's the big deal to perk a few aircraft to fill the 3-10 range? I won't fly the F4U-4 in the MA because at my skill level, it took me a long time to earn those points and I don't want to blow them on just a few very expensive flights. The ME262 is a different story because there is no "free" substitute for it.

And if you have more than a 2:1 K/D ratio overall, you do not represent the average player in the arena when you speak about how easy plane-X is to kill. I'm not ashamed to admit that I cannot kill a LA7 1v1 in a Mustang or Corsair vs a pilot at my skill level or above.

woops, can't type K/D with : in place of /. K:D

Regardless of how your perk, the players you hope to hamstring will laugh at the cost. I am sorry for the bad news.

Edit to add: I know of one player for sure with over 6,000 fighter perks. He doesn't even fly the planes you would liked additionally perked, so you would have to come up with a new reason to hate him/her.

At some point, somebody is just gpoing to be better than somebody else - no matter how much hand holding you try to do. That's life, that's war, that's the game. Sorry.

Innominate · « **Reply #49 on:** October 07, 2002, 12:46:30 AM »

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Originally posted by poopster

Why would someone fly the F4U4 or a Spit 14 with their price tag if they are marginally better or worse than the non perked planes..

So they aren't flown. Hence the perk works.

On the other hand if they were not perked, it would be all you see.

Somewhere between no-usage, and taking over the arena, lies the truth.

IMO, eliminating the 152/spit14/f4u4 gangbang tags, without touching the costs would increase usage, without making them as common as say, the chog.

Turbot · « **Reply #50 on:** October 07, 2002, 12:55:10 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Innominate

Somewhere between no-usage, and taking over the arena, lies the truth.

IMO, eliminating the 152/spit14/f4u4 gangbang tags, without touching the costs would increase usage, without making them as common as say, the chog.

I am 16:1 in 152 (the one being on auto pilot while watching Andromeda season premier)

I am 2:0 F4u4 becuase I only flown it once and had to hurry for CAP event

(I don't fly jet any more, I hate it and kill nothing)

The enemy already wants to kill me no matter what i'm in, If they do stupid stuff chasing a perk tag, they can RIP

AT one time I agreed with this perk tag removal. Now honestly I don't care - if you are flying offensively - it doesn't matter.

Duedel · « **Reply #51 on:** October 07, 2002, 02:37:13 AM »

Perk the 190A5 its über!

lazs2 · « **Reply #52 on:** October 07, 2002, 08:58:03 AM »

I think that if you fly a perk plane in the arena then you should be identified as such. The arena is lopsided enough without hiding the perk planes.

I also think that all the 109/190's should be identifies as well as the f4f's and the f4u's and 51's and most of all.... the spit variants.
lazs

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #53 on:** October 07, 2002, 09:02:12 AM »

I agree with lazs.

Besides... what would you call a 152? The Spit14 and F4u-4 would be easy... but you'd outright have to lie about the 152.

AKDejaVu

Zippatuh · « **Reply #54 on:** October 07, 2002, 09:13:35 AM »

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Originally posted by Samm
If it were subjective then it would be a matter of opinion .

I don’t know about it being subjective and I’m not running any tests.

The fact remains though, the easiest way to kill an LA7 is to get the fight down to stall speeds as quickly as possible. The LA7 is by far the worst aircraft, non perk that is, to try and keep control of when low and slow.

I’d venture to say a brick has a better sustained turn rate at stall speeds than the LA7 does.

Urchin · « **Reply #55 on:** October 07, 2002, 10:33:45 AM »

La7 turns about as well as a 109G-10 at stall speeds. That is to say that it will outturn any of the 190s, probably any of the P47s, and thats about it.

P-51D turns a lot better with flaps at low speeds than most people give it credit for.

Puck · « **Reply #56 on:** October 07, 2002, 10:42:17 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Urchin
La7 turns about as well as a 109G-10 at stall speeds. That is to say that it will outturn any of the 190s, probably any of the P47s, and thats about it.

A fully loaded cement truck going flat out on a sheet of ice can out turn the 190s.

Rude · « **Reply #57 on:** October 07, 2002, 10:50:35 AM »

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Originally posted by -ammo-
yea, I based my comments on an underlying motive. It is a conspiracy you know. We all hate you nazi flyers.

Shame shame, shame on you......you used the "N" Word!

Wotan · « **Reply #58 on:** October 07, 2002, 01:25:00 PM »

Zip you are correct the la7 handles terribly at lo speeds. The 51 is much better.

Its not subjective, Samm is wrong but its not worth argueing about.

Puke · « **Reply #59 on:** October 07, 2002, 07:08:58 PM »

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Regardless of how your perk, the players you hope to hamstring will laugh at the cost. I am sorry for the bad news.

Turbot, I think this was in reference to me. However, this has nothing to do with anything I was talking about. I wasn't looking to use the perks as a tool to hamstring players. Quite the opposite, to give players something viable to use their perks on.

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Well the LA7 and 51D ARE already costing you perks every time you kill something with them.

Yes, and no. You sorta touch upon the idea of "opportunity cost." However, I think overall you are incorrect because in the long run you get more kills in a 51D or LA7 than you probably woud in a lower performing aircraft. Yeah, per kill you don't earn as much, but you kill more and there lies the benefit.

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Zip you are correct the la7 handles terribly at lo speeds. The 51 is much better.

Wotan, if the LA7 decides to stay slow, I'd agree. All the LA7 has to do is let up off the stick a little and put the throttle to the firewall and it can get to a speed where it is more controllable while the 51 still wallows around trying to accelerate to where it can make some semblance of a turn. With a higher speed and a lag turn or a more nose high turn, it can stay with a 51 no problem. In my personal opinion, acceleration is the best attribute a fighter can have, even more so than turning ability and the LA7 has this in spades. But generally, the best turners in here also are the best at acceleration too.